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Where's the IMSB? Apparently without seeing it, I presume it came out in chunks. What would I do?
1. Flush the engine as much as possible with kero or diesel fuel. Including the oil pump and inlet. If you can remove and clean the oil cooler exchanger do that.
2. Install a full flow oil filter kit and filter, no more bypass.
3. Put in a new IMSB.
4. New oil.
5. Run it for an hour. Change oil/filter.
6. Run it for another hour. Change oil/filter.
7. Hope for the best.
I KNOW of two engines that have suffered metal in the engine and were saved. One was a Boxster, one was a late 996. It's just a matter of how far gone it is.
This is what I like to hear!
Hope this turns into a success story.
Please keep us posted!
The chance is that all that metal will cause further problems in the future. IMO, replacing just the IMS bearing at this point is risky. Even if it does start and run after, it’s just kicking the can further down the road. IMO a full tear down and internal cleanup offers a much higher chance of success and longevity.
Some unpleasant news from my Indy today. See pictures below of glitter in and around the IMS bearing and engine case.
Recommendations on how to proceed?
I assume the two main options are:
1) replace it, go with a spin on oil filter and magnet and hope for the best or
2) find an honorable way to get rid of the car.
Personally, this bearing looks to be in Stage 3 according to Jake Raby in the PCA IMS videos. When I had the IMS solution installed last year, the certified installer was very clear that my car MUST pass pre-qualification which meant that my bearing could NOT be past Stage 1.
Your bearing is clearing shedding metal in the engine and if you just replace the IMS bearing, it will only be a matter of time before the metal contaminated oil takes out the new replacement IMSB. In my opinion, the RIGHT thing to do is open up the motor and cleanse it of ALL metal contamination BEFORE replacing it with a IMS retrofit.
That's the most honorable thing to do regardless if you keep it or sell it someone else.
Personally, this bearing looks to be in Stage 3 according to Jake Raby in the PCA IMS videos.
...
In my opinion, the RIGHT thing to do is open up the motor and cleanse it of ALL metal contamination BEFORE replacing it with a IMS retrofit.
Thanks Prof. and Anthony. I agree.
After looking at the PCA/Raby videos again and handling the bearing yesterday, my best estimate is that it was at an early Stage 3 or late Stage 2. There's definitely glitter and there's a little wobble/play in the bearing, signaling that a not insignificant amount of material has been lost. Did not have an oil leak at the flange. Haven't yet seen any FOD that was larger than sugar crystals/table salt/sand... not to discount the abrasive abilities of sand. Its been approximately 700 miles since the last oil change, when only a small amount of ferromagnetic fuzz was on the magnetic drain plug. Things went down hill quickly.
First off, I've decided I am going to keep the car no matter what. (Schwartzy will ride again.)
We'll drop the sump and the filter and see if anything looks different there, in quantity, color, or size.
If more of the same, we'll clean up everything we can, short of a full rebuild, put in a new bearing and hope for the best.
Will monitor oil and filters carefully going forward and see how it goes.
If engine fails, so be it. Its just a hobby car.
Rather than spend too much more money or time on rehabilitating the original stock 3.4L., I would prefer to look at my options for an engine upgrade if it were to fail.
At least then I'd be confident there were no other lurking issues with a 20 year old, 7 prior owners, motor.
I'm sure there are many options which would fit my bill, thanks for the suggestions. Maybe you'll get to help me decide between a 3.8L and 4.0L flat six in the future! Or maybe the 3.4L will give me years of driving joy yet to come.
If more of the same, we'll clean up everything we can, short of a full rebuild, put in a new bearing and hope for the best.
Will monitor oil and filters carefully going forward and see how it goes.
Just so I understand here - you agree with these two assessments, but you're going to proceed with my given process?
Or, do I misunderstand, and you are going to disassemble the heads, cases, remove all the rotating, recip masses, and then put all the old parts back in, a new IMSB and run it?
We'll drop the sump and the filter and see if anything looks different there, in quantity, color, or size.
If more of the same, we'll clean up everything we can, short of a full rebuild, put in a new bearing and hope for the best.
Will monitor oil and filters carefully going forward and see how it goes.
This is what I would do. It's either going to be a problem or it isn't.
Buy a new factory shortblock from porsche for $7.5K. Have the heads full inspected, surfaced and cleaned, reinstall the short block with old heads and replace top end bits that might be needed. More like 12.5K than $20K ANd make sure they remove the seals from the IMS if Porsche still provides the engined with "permanent" IMS bearing seals.
Update: Found even better news. 996.1 brand new factory short blocks can be had from Sonnen Porsche for $5900.00
Buy a new factory shortblock from porsche for $7.5K. Have the heads full inspected, surfaced and cleaned, reinstall the short block with old heads and replace top end bits that might be needed. More like 12.5K than $20K ANd make sure they remove the seals from the IMS if Porsche still provides the engined with "permanent" IMS bearing seals.
Update: Found even better news. 996.1 brand new factory short blocks can be had from Sonnen Porsche for $5900.00
I would clean what I could, put in a new sealed IMSB (like the originals) to keep particles out of the new bearing as long as possible, along with a non-bypass oil filter setup, and either buy a new short block, if you plan on doing the wrenching yourself, or get on a waiting list for a rebuild. The remaining partlcles will eventually kill the engine, but you may be lucky and get some miles out of it.
It's a crapshoot if you patch it up and drive, but I am a risk taker by nature.
I guess the cheap way out is Porsche shortblock plus IMS solution and heads rebuilt. It won’t be as good as a fully rebuilt LN equipped engine but it ought to be reliable with good service. If I did that for my Boxster I’d be at 3.4L and have something to abuse until it goes kaboom.
Then I could build something awesome for later as budget and time allow. I still worry with a Porsche shortblock they won’t stand by their product just like the original engine.
Honestly though, I wouldn’t restart this engine without disassembly and thorough cleaning. It’s not my engine though.
The new short block will come with the latest large dia single row bearing, non-replaceable without splitting the case. Maybe it’s just me, but I wouldn’t want to open up a new short block. I put one in my car as stock, when it’s time for a clutch change, I’ll take the seal off, but probably not put in the solution without going all the way with nickies, pistons, rods, etc. this would be significantly more expensive. It would suck to put in the solution only to have bores scored failure sometime down the road.
02-22-2019, 11:12 PM
