Replacement M96 DIY engines under 10k
10-23-2019, 11:57 AM
#16
Former Vendor
10-23-2019, 12:00 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
With what we now know about the 986/996 engines, getting a new short block from Porsche, changing the oil every 3 months with a Motul or Raby oil, using the low temp thermostat, magnetic drain plug, spin on oil filter adapter, pulling the seals off of the large M97 style bearing, and replacing all associated broken plastics/water pump etc. should provide you with an engine that will provide 200,000 miles of hassle free driving enjoyment.
10-23-2019, 01:22 PM
#18
10-23-2019, 02:27 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
With what we now know I would think one could minimize and prolong the issue from starting.
And for what it's worth, I would not pay more than $6-$7K for a good (I've seen and heard it run w/compression test) used motor.
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soverystout (10-25-2019)
10-23-2019, 02:37 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
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10-23-2019, 02:48 PM
#21
I would like to think that Porsche indirectly admitted to the M96/M97 Lokasil problem just like they did with the IMS fiasco until people banded together. They had proven nikasil bores in the all the air-coolend engines as well as the M96/M97 Turbo,GT2, and GT3 models that didn't suffer from the scoring problem. Alusil seems to follow the same fate as Navarro, Bazhart, and Raby have pointed out many times. Nikasil is still the one to go with... you add piston pin offset issue and that's enough for me to say "no thank you". Many people will claim these engines don't have problems until they have problems.
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carlvs (10-23-2019)
10-23-2019, 03:03 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Nikasil is not without it's flaws/risks, sulfer is one that corrodes Nikasil, I have seen numerous cases of flaking of the edges. Don't get me wrong, I love Nikasil and Millenium does a good job, I have used them for years. Nikasil/ aluminum cylinders are lightweight, better ring seal, less friction, and gives a few more pony's, but is not perfect, and is the most expensive process.
Nodular Iron is more stable, higher strength, more durable, but heavier and will loose a few pony's and a little fuel efficiency, the main reasons why all the other materials are being used . The constant chase for fuel efficiency lighweight, and sometimes just for the little extra power. I'm OK with carrying a little extra weight, giving up a little efficency and pony's for a rock solid bottom end.
10-25-2019, 04:21 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
If you own a car that was big $$$ brand new, it will take some big $$ to properly maintain unless you can do it yourself.
With all of the low mileage 996 out there (which I wouldn't touch), most likely, those cars sat and were rarely driven for years, let alone getting oil changes every 6 months.
10-26-2019, 04:02 PM
#24
Drifting
True, but diligent service intervals would make this a non issue. I know many newer gen Porsche owners who still scoff at oil changes before 15K miles because "its expensive" and the put Kumho tires on their car because they are cheaper than N spec or Porsche approved tires.
If you own a car that was big $$$ brand new, it will take some big $$ to properly maintain unless you can do it yourself.
With all of the low mileage 996 out there (which I wouldn't touch), most likely, those cars sat and were rarely driven for years, let alone getting oil changes every 6 months.
If you own a car that was big $$$ brand new, it will take some big $$ to properly maintain unless you can do it yourself.
With all of the low mileage 996 out there (which I wouldn't touch), most likely, those cars sat and were rarely driven for years, let alone getting oil changes every 6 months.
10-26-2019, 05:54 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
You have to assume either the whole design is beyond saving,, or that it can be taken care of ,,
Regular oil changes keep the PH of the oil under control. So your minimizing corrosion and breakdown
of the wear surfaces.. While the piston offset is an issue, you can minimize that by not lugging the engine,
The ovalization thing well,, it is what it is,, Upside is the Nickies or the Hartech ring both fix it,, but at a cost..
The quality of the cylinder Alloy is likely one of the big players in that problem.
My 03 has 115K on the clock, ready for its second oil change and baseline oil test. We shall see..
I know I have my fingers crossed..
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10-27-2019, 05:10 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Based on the available research, higher ZDDP and moly levels along with increased HTHS vis would seem to help extend the UMW (ultra mild wear) regime for aluminum bores.
A paper published by Toyota that I came across this morning indicates that sulfur in fuels and interactions at low engine temperatures below 40C create acids that cause accelerated wear in MMC bores, like Lokasil and Alusil.
Although some think it's extreme, more frequent oil changes are the best step to extend the usable life. Those cars driven in cold climates or very short distances where the oil never gets to temp are those cars that will have the highest bore and ring wear.
10-27-2019, 07:27 PM
#27
Drifting
I have stacks of papers published in peer reviewed engineering journals that directly point to the fact that oil has a huge part in all of this. Time permitting I've been digesting them into a condensed form which I plan on sharing, but it's been a project I've been working on the last 11 months.
Based on the available research, higher ZDDP and moly levels along with increased HTHS vis would seem to help extend the UMW (ultra mild wear) regime for aluminum bores.
A paper published by Toyota that I came across this morning indicates that sulfur in fuels and interactions at low engine temperatures below 40C create acids that cause accelerated wear in MMC bores, like Lokasil and Alusil.
Although some think it's extreme, more frequent oil changes are the best step to extend the usable life. Those cars driven in cold climates or very short distances where the oil never gets to temp are those cars that will have the highest bore and ring wear.
Based on the available research, higher ZDDP and moly levels along with increased HTHS vis would seem to help extend the UMW (ultra mild wear) regime for aluminum bores.
A paper published by Toyota that I came across this morning indicates that sulfur in fuels and interactions at low engine temperatures below 40C create acids that cause accelerated wear in MMC bores, like Lokasil and Alusil.
Although some think it's extreme, more frequent oil changes are the best step to extend the usable life. Those cars driven in cold climates or very short distances where the oil never gets to temp are those cars that will have the highest bore and ring wear.
10-29-2019, 02:11 AM
#28
Three Wheelin'
Exactly what I'd expect ,, moisture + sulphur + heat= acid..
Investing in a oil heater for the sump might be a thing if you live in
a cool climate. They sell them in dirt track catalogs for heating up dry sump tanks.
They don't take long, a 2 gallon tank and heater its 160 in < 10 minutes.
They are a silicone rubber pad with heat wires inside..
Investing in a oil heater for the sump might be a thing if you live in
a cool climate. They sell them in dirt track catalogs for heating up dry sump tanks.
They don't take long, a 2 gallon tank and heater its 160 in < 10 minutes.
They are a silicone rubber pad with heat wires inside..
10-29-2019, 05:15 AM
#29
Exactly what I'd expect ,, moisture + sulphur + heat= acid..
Investing in a oil heater for the sump might be a thing if you live in
a cool climate. They sell them in dirt track catalogs for heating up dry sump tanks.
They don't take long, a 2 gallon tank and heater its 160 in < 10 minutes.
They are a silicone rubber pad with heat wires inside..
Investing in a oil heater for the sump might be a thing if you live in
a cool climate. They sell them in dirt track catalogs for heating up dry sump tanks.
They don't take long, a 2 gallon tank and heater its 160 in < 10 minutes.
They are a silicone rubber pad with heat wires inside..
If my memory is good they are about 4-5 inch long and are usually 500-1000 watts.
They are peel and stick but need to be sealed with silicone.
The only problem I can see is the surface of the M96 pan is not smooth and have ridges so it might be harder to have the pad stick to it.
I do live in cold climate so we are used to see theses system either for oil pan but mostly for coolant which is a probe type heater but I never expected I would need one of those as I dont drive the car during winter months. The coldest temperature the car would see here is around 42 deg F.
Im now wondering if you heat up the oil, let say an hour before running the engine, will it release the moisture from the oil without eliminating it as it would normally if you would drive the car for an hour?
Last edited by Os7213; 10-30-2019 at 04:00 AM.
10-29-2019, 11:04 AM
#30
Exactly what I'd expect ,, moisture + sulphur + heat= acid..
Investing in a oil heater for the sump might be a thing if you live in
a cool climate. They sell them in dirt track catalogs for heating up dry sump tanks.
They don't take long, a 2 gallon tank and heater its 160 in < 10 minutes.
They are a silicone rubber pad with heat wires inside..
Investing in a oil heater for the sump might be a thing if you live in
a cool climate. They sell them in dirt track catalogs for heating up dry sump tanks.
They don't take long, a 2 gallon tank and heater its 160 in < 10 minutes.
They are a silicone rubber pad with heat wires inside..