Mark Sanderson

Greetings!
Long time lurker first time posting. I’m currently in a slow burn over the next 3 to 6 months to purchase either a 996 Turbo (s) or 996.2 to 997.2 C2/4S. This will be my first Porsche. I plan on doing a lot of the work myself. Having wrenched on my Harleys for some time I’m fairly comfortable with doing most work. One of my primary goals is to avoid the IMS and bore scoring issues in some models. My question is what can/should I expect from a ‘normal’ PPI?
1. Should I expect that the tech will drop the pan and inspect?
2. Should I expect the tech to bore scope the cylinders?
3. Assuming I’ll pay for a new oil filter, would inspecting the current filter be too much to ask?

Is this considered too invasive or will most owners reject this? If I was an owner I would not object assuming it was done by a bonded certified tech …. I tried crafting a search for this and didn’t really come up with anything useful. Advice?

One more question, how can an AOS vs Bore Scoring (smoke after a start) be discerned?

Thanks, Mark!

pesuazo

Bore scoring will have the tapping sound....Bad AOS would have a lot of vacuum if you try to pull the oil cap while engine idling.....

Mike Murphy

Unless you specify exactly what you want the PPI to cover, chances are, they will just look over the car like any inspection. Most PPIs will not cover a bore scope inspection top and bottom.

The filter check is an easy one and not too much to ask.

The best way to determine bore scoring is follow the Jake Raby procedure - top and bottom.

I wouldn’t worry too much about AOS. The vacuum test is an easy check, and if the tailpipes aren’t covered in oil and if the engine isn’t smoking, these AOS devices don’t generally fail without all or nothing symptoms.

mrdeezy

It’s around 400-500 bucks for a thorough ppi on any of the cars you listed besides the metzger. I am not sure what’s involved with that. You should wait and find the right car. Ppi’ s are very in depth for these cars because of all of the known issues. The difference between a regular ppi and a 996 specific one would be

oil sump removal and scope cylinders
dme report
cut open oil filter

which should easily add 2-300 bucks onto a standard ppi.

motoo344

My PPI was around $300 and included cutting the filter open. A good, independent Porsche shop should be able to check over everything you need. They should check the overall condition, cosmetic faults, suspension condition and mechanical condition. They can check the computer for over revs which are stored on it. Metal in the filter can indicate bore scoring or IMS issues.

yelcab

A dealer PPI is about $450 complete with incompetent work, and suggested repairs so they can make more money. They do not do compression test, or leak down test, or scoping, or dropping the pan, or cutting the filter open unless it is double that amount.

A competent independent PPI can do anything you ask, as long as you pay for it.

Obviously, don't take it to a dealer.

Dmhager

Agree with the previous posts about a PPI: you need to specify what you want done and it needs to be done by someone who knows what they are looking for.

However, I don't place much value on a PPI as they won't likely catch the issues that plague these cars the most (996 NA cars): IMSb, failed water pumps, incorrect oil selection or long change intervals. Instead, I recommend finding a sub 50k car that has been owned by a loving owner who knows how to treat the cars and keeps records of what has been done. Cars loved on the outside are frequently loved on the inside. An OCD owner (definitely more common in the Pcar crowd) change their oil every year or 5000 miles, change the water pump before it fails (no PPI will find missing vanes in the water passages), the IMSb should have been done using the LNE bearing before it failed (no PPI can inspect an IMSb). Lifetime coolant? You've got to be kidding?! Get yourself a Foxwell scanner with the Porsche software and plug it in - check the camshaft deviation (should be sub 6 deg) and presence of codes. And of course, do your own thorough inspection for leaks, underbody damage, and drive the car through the gears (do a downhill decel in 2nd and check for pop out - less common with the NA cars) and visit red line along the way. Assuming you know which end of the car has the engine and assuming you have reasonable mechanical skills, you should be able to get a very good sense of the car's condition. Things like the AOS, coolant tank, and window regulators are fairly common and inexpensive repairs that can be done on your own, and are secondary to a neglected motor.

My advice, spend your time reading up on RL what to look for and buy yourself a proper scan tool rather than doing the same at a PPI. Interview the owner as much as the car and be selective - there are a lot of 996s (in whatever configuration you like) to choose from. Always run a carfax.

Southern Man

When I bought my 996 eight years ago the Indy I wanted to use was backed up for weeks, so on advice from a friend I had the dealer do one. (This was a private sale.). Knowing what I know now it was probably a waste of $200. I got an almost perfect report but they really didn't look too deep.

I'm all for a PPI, but as others have noted, be sure to ask them specifically what they're going to do, or not do.

85eurocarrera

Buy a turbo.

markfsanderson

Interviewing the owner as well? Great Idea!
Which Foxwell Scanner? http://www.foxwelltool.com/wholesale...BoChqwQAvD_BwE

Yup, all of those things are on my pre PPI inspection list that I will do before handing it over to a 'pro'.

Thanks!

Mark

markfsanderson

That would eliminate the IMSb/RMS and bore scoring issues . . . but opens some (relatively minor) issues with the timing chains and cooling conduit - correct? They all have their own issues, from what I can tell. But yes, the turbo is top on my list . . . but a good carrera s (2 or 4) would work just fine for me as well . . .

Mark!

markfsanderson

Understood . . . exactly what I have been doing!

Mark!

Mike Murphy

Tue turbo has fewer possible failure scenarios and probably costs about the same to maintain. And it will hold it’s value the same. The difference is about $20k, but you get a much more powerful car. I would test drive both and see which one you prefer. Besides the power, they handle differently. If you like the way the turbo handles, and you can afford it, I would go the turbo route.

NYoutftr

I purchased my 2003 996.2 about 6 years ago.
$275.00
The PPI was done at the Porsche dealership that did all of the service since new.
I guess, pros and cons to this.
But spoke a few times with Service Manager and the assigned Tech who had serviced the car since new.
Cut oil filters everytime.
They did indicate Driver's seat heat element and lighter not working. Both were repaired.
The previous owner had just done a service of Oil and Brake flush and new wipers before he decided to purchase a new Turbo Cab at the age of 74.
Be cautious of a 996 that has too low of miles, garage queens seem to have a higher probability of IMS issues from what this forum has stated for many years
Good luck, BE PICKY
There are a few good ones out there, and the selling prices match.

yelcab

Go all the way, buy a 996GT3. It's the King of the Hill