TT Oversteer

It would seem the consensus is the Raby/Navarro combo is the Gold Standard for M96 engines. I have no experience with either and no reason to doubt their products, services and engineering prowess. I am curious, however; how many have run these engines well past 100k miles and what has been your experience? Much ado has been made about the fragile M96 time bomb with its “service item” IMS bearing and fragile scoring-prone cylinders but my example has done 115k miles with its original IMS bearing and only trace precursor bore scoring. How long will it run before it grenades? Only time will tell…

So when I debate opening my wallet to alleviate the sleepless nights and cold sweats of M96 anxiety I have to ask: “what am I buying?” With my tens of thousands of dollars? By the vendors’ own admission the $800 IMS Retrofit is a 50k mile life limited part. The only real “solution” is the $1,800 IMS Solution. How long do Nickies and J&E pistons last? There’s no such thing as forever when it comes to machines.

So I ask those with experience: How many have run these engines well past 100k and beyond? Are there any known failures of these parts and processes? It’s understood usage and maintenance practices are a huge part of the equation. For those who have progressed past Denial, Acceptance, and Writing the Check, how are you all sleeping at night?

EVOMMM

Wait till it goes pop if the car is worth it to you then fix it to what you can afford
I have a 99 with 103k when it goes pop I’ll cry
but value before and after is my only factoring

TT Oversteer

That’s an excellent philosophy!

I may have been less than clear in my original post. Im not talking about our original engines as they came from the factory. I’m asking those who have invested in FSI and LN products if they have had any known failures and what type of longevity they expect to get from their FSI/RND engines and LN products.

Scalp_em

Interested in the responses….

I just recently got my Stage II 4.0 and it has been excellent so far. So I’m no position to comment on durability, but I’ve have been extremely pleased with the process and the motor so far in the 2500 miles or so I have driven. From my experience in conversations with FSI and other FSI engine owners, as long as you follow maintenance recommendations and protocols it seems like from others experiences that as long you do those things and are honest and up front, Jake and FSI crew have supported original engine owners above and beyond what most would expect. Like anything mechanical nothing will last forever, just last as long as you care for it. They have built these engines addressing the known shortcomings and modes of faliure. I cannot see how if you properly maintain this engine why it cannot make it to 100k miles under normal spirited driving conditions.

az968gpw

35k miles on my Stage II 3.8. UOAs fron Speediagnostics are great and an "engine health" test i did last year, with the manometer, impressed Porschetech so I see no reason it won't outlast me. Zero engine issues to date. And it's a freaking blast to drive!

golock911

I sleep very well at night and can't wait to drive the car in the morning. Turn the key, wait for the oil gauge to show me the level, start the engine, 1-2-3 fires, and drive off. No drama.

Maybe I shouldn't be responding as I only have 8K on my 3.8 stage1. It's an amazing piece of work. I went with FSI because of the volume of work that Jake has published demonstrating his understanding of these engines. I expect this engine to last 200K miles +. And by the published understanding and the prescribed preventive maintenance, it will easily make it. I'll post back in 10-15 years when I get there. The maintenance plan is the same as any other plan.

What other rebuild options exist that have the demonstrated understanding that FSI has? How much do they cost? How does the DIYer find these options?

It seems you should open up the discussion to anyone that has had an engine rebuilt that has needed a 2nd rebuild. If you could collect data from a bunch of sources, the resulting table of information should show the value of one over the other very quickly.

996C438

My 2002 Boxster S 3.6 R51 engine was completed in late 2015 by FSI . Jake actually built my engine but all of his engine builders are top notch . My engine runs as well today as it did back when I got it . Mild mannered around town and an unleashed beast in the mountains . I sleep great at night .

A few months ago my 3.8 Stage II was completed for my 1999 996 C4 . I have about 800 miles on her and she is running perfect . I am confident that all short comings of this engine series have been resolved in my two engines . I have the IMS Solution in both . I fully expect that both cars will outlive me .

NAMR6MT

9k miles in, zero complaints. A strict engine service timeline must be adhered to for the first 120k miles/12 years to ensure optimal operation which is completely expected. Components such as AOS, water pump, etc. are replaced at a relatively short timeframe compared to what the manual says or what the general consensus is. It's all about preservation and long-term reliability. I fully expect this engine to outlive my physical ability to drive a manual transmission sports car.

bgoetz

I don’t have a whole lot to add. My experience to this point has been great with FSI. Before I committed I search numerous forums and found no instances of failure. The design addresses most of the sort comings of the engine, so logic would say that reliability should be better. Obviously with such a small sample size you are less likely to find really high mile examples, but having watched how both Jake and Charles test other products before putting something to market I have no doubts that each tried their best to break these engines in numerous ways before actually marketing them.

As for the comment alluding to the pain of writing the check, there wasn’t any for me. I don’t want to say that the $ I paid couldn’t have been used for something different, but it wasn’t $ that I “needed”. For this reason my perspective/worry is maybe a bit different, but I think you will find a lot of guys buying these engines are in a similar situation.

Sneaky Pete

My FSI 4.0 has been in my car for 7 years and 50K+ miles and it is a beast. I maintain the car myself and have never had an issue with the motor. If I have questions I go to the Bat-phone and call Jake...........and I haven't talk to him in a while. That shows how well the motor is performing. As for the cost? It is all relative. We pay for things we enjoy and I enjoy the snot out of this thing. Did I mention it is a beast?

501Max

Stage II 4.0 in my 2002 installed April/2016. It is used solely for track duty running at Eagles Canyon, NCM, Barber, Motorsport Ranch Cresson, and Ozark Int'l. Raceway. Thus, it runs on a lot of different elevation and turn configurations. I've not had any engine issues. I remain very happy about my FSI choice. It is now back at FSI for a refresh/preventative maintenance to get prepped for the next 7 years. FSI earned my faith in their team and product. I've not run it 100K miles but it has run at full throttle for many track miles including long sessions and/or back to back sessions. Call me a Raby/FSI fan man!

cwheeler

Full disclosure, I have an engine in the build process.

jake and FSI has been building engines for how long? Counting aircooled, 30 years? How many first hand negative, upset owners can you find? When doing my research for my car, I tried to find a negative review, someone that wasn’t happy. You can’t find them. You find a lot of people bitching about his process, his pricing, he won’t do this, or he said blah blah to me. None of that matters. I’ve reached out and talked to owners. Their opinion matters. I have found 100% satisfaction. Small sample size, but 100% is impressive.

I do question the motivation behind the question. Especially in light of recent push on FB and forums by a couple of engine builders. And I haven’t read anything bad about them either, just that their methodology is different. Why aren’t they included in your questioning?

cw

wdb

bgoetz

In my experience with other car brands/forums even the best engine builders have 1 or 2 instances where things go sideways and you end up with a dissatisfied customer sharing their dissatisfaction. So to me in finding nothing said either there are zero issues with FSI builds OR there have been issues but FSI does such a good job dealing with them there is no dissatisfaction. Either way I was good with that.

ochristofferson

2 years and approx 24K miles on my Stage I 3.4 (bumped to 3.6) M97.21 - so a bit shy of your 100K miles. Cylinders were showing early signs of scoring (65K miles on original engine) and I love this car. Read as much as I could online about the issues and considered a few options. Looked at doing a Nickies and rebuild myself but when adding up the cost of components, outside services, special tool rentals, etc. and considering Jake's 1 year warranty and my odds of screwing something up, it was cheaper (total cost) to have FSI do it all.
Very happy with overall build and extra low-mid range torque - not a beast like the 4.0 but certainly enough to do what I want it to do.
No issues with the build and regular maintenance per FSI recommendations have made this reliable Porsche a joy to own and drive. Obviously more miles and time, I think, will confirm my decision to go this rout.