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I currently own a 2002 996 Carrera Tiptronic as a daily driver. I also have a ‘01 996 Turbo, 88 Carrera, ‘77 911S and two cayennes. Of all these cars the ‘05 Cayenne is the best daily if fuel consumption is not an issue for you. It's the most comfortable, practical, hauls and tows, and was cheapest to buy used. As the 911’s go, the 996 Carrera is best as a daily. The 996 Turbo and both air cooled’s are an event to drive. While fun, the air cooled are not practical, comfortable or inexpensive to own. I also worry about parking or leaving them anywhere. A/C is nonexistent on the air cooled cars. The problem I have with the 996 Carrera is that, while relatively cheap to buy, they are very expensive to rebuild. And they will all need IMS/AOS/bore scoring rebuild, etc, etc. So if you buy an M96 you will pay the “M96 Tax” someone referred to above. Based on your posts I’d recommend selling the Volvo and Suburban and get a Cayenne Turbo. If you must daily a sports car (I do) then get a 996 that’s been properly maintained and retrofitted/rebuilt or get a 996 Turbo. Skip the air cooled unless you want a toy.
Owning both a Cayenne and a newer (2021) Macan, if you don't need that extra space, the Macan is the go-to ride. It's still bigger than the 911, but drives respectably well. Also, the older Cayennes may have a cheap entry price, they have their foibles, too.
Unfortunately, the days of affordable Porsches have slipped into the past. The 996 does have one of the lowest entry price, particularly for the 911, but these cars are two decades old and some parts are getting hard to find.
One suggestion is to contact your local Porsche club (club president is a good place to start). You may find members that are looking to sell and with a little work come out with a good car at a better price than you find at auction or a dealer's lot. You also tend to be buying from an enthusiast with the support of like-minded club members.
I'll give you my perspective as a first time Porsche owner who bought a 996 five months ago. Like you, I was considering an air-cooled model, as well as a Cayman. I ended up going with the 996 because the value was just too good to pass up.
I might have spent more money if the discount for the 996 hadn't been as much as it was, but I just felt like the value was so outrageously good I had to go that route. I don't regret it for a second. I absolutely love the car, and have been able to put some of the remaining funds back into it by doing preventative maintenance earlier and will be making some cosmetic/utility updates that I otherwise probably wouldn't have (wheels refurbishment, paint correction, PPF, PCCM install, etc). I don't think you can go wrong with either route, but these are the reasons I went the way I did. Good luck!
This was exactly me. I saved for several years hoping to find a nice air-cooled, and gave up after seeing the prices go into collector territory with no signs of coming back. So I moved my focus onto the 997.2 so I could have a PDK automatic (wife...). I had a dedicated Porsche fund built up to nearly $60k set aside when I stumbled on a thread talking about the early build '99s. A PDK failure or bore scoring issue would have been a killer on the $10-15k that might have been left in the Porsche/maintenance fund, but at $20k for a '99 I had more than enough left for fully sorting, paint correction, ceramic coating, upgrading the stereo, and still have enough left over for any catastrophic failures (I'm not worried).
Six months later, and while I still like the looks of the 997 and think a PDK would have been fun (loved the samples I drove), I don't have any regrets and definitely don't feel as if I "settled" for less. It's an absolute blast to drive, and I don't stress that I overspent by pushing the limits of my dedicated budget.
My 2003 4s has been a great daily driver since 3/2019 (over 40,000 miles) and my 2009 4s (PDK) has also been a great dd since 4/2021 (over 25,000 miles). Both perform year round in all weather conditions. Great cars but they aren't cheap to maintain properly. The pleasure the cars give outweighs their costs!
I would say don't do what I did and buy the first 996 you see. But for me, it was love at first sight. I purchased it right before the whole bore scoring issue came into the spotlight. I had a PPI performed and was told bore scoring was rare, had the IMS replaced and thought I was done. Soon after found out I had all the symptoms of bore scoring. Nursed it for a few years and added about 10K miles on it while feeding it lots of oil. I finally got the rebuild and have to say I'd probably do it again (don't tell the wife). It's now a 3.8L with power everywhere, RWD, no nannies (ABS aside) and just awesome to drive. Pretty sure it's my forever car. Good luck with whatever you do.
Lots of really good perspectives and insights here, thanks everyone. Looking around the interwebs, this car is semi-local. I like the color combo but the option codes for wheels is “413 - 18" Lt Alloy Wheel- Turbo Look $1325”. However I do not think these are the original wheels? Can anyone confirm and if not original, any idea if they are Porsche or aftermarket? Would this lower the value of the car?
Lots of really good perspectives and insights here, thanks everyone. Looking around the interwebs, this car is semi-local. I like the color combo but the option codes for wheels is “413 - 18" Lt Alloy Wheel- Turbo Look $1325”. However I do not think these are the original wheels? Can anyone confirm and if not original, any idea if they are Porsche or aftermarket? Would this lower the value of the car?
These look like BBS sport design wheels. Not sure if real or Chinesium fake.
I was in a similar situation too. I went with the C2 knowing it had some issues that might need sorting. But short of a rebuild, those are all still cheaper than buying a 997.2. So the 996 grew on me and now I love mine. Im also partial to it being the lightest watercooled option, and the sound with a Fister exhaust is intoxicating.
I checked out several used 996s earlier this week, at a high-end used vehicle dealership. The only service records for the cars are on the carfax report but they are agreeable to a delivering the car for a PPI.However, I find it interesting that even the highest recommended indy Porsche shop (with the highest price...almost $600) does not include scoping a single cylinder via spark plug, nor to they deem it all that necessary. The dealer has changed the oil recently so a UOA is of no value. The 996 with the BBS wheels pictured in the above post - had a coolant reservoir that was bone dry, I pointed that out to the sales guy and he said they "must have missed that". Ummm yeah, red flag for me. I'm super leary of used car dealers buying cars at auction, doing the bare minium maintenance to sell them. Possibly filling them with engine or system sealants as a temporary fix. Got home and read dealer google reviews...there are some pretty negative reviews followed by combative responses from the owner/gm. Quoting often the cars are sold AS IS- NO WARRANTY. Obviously this isn't the car or dealer for me.
But my question remains re: PPI. If bore-scoring is such a wide-spread/eminent issue w/ the 996.2 why are indy shops not recommending or including it? And I talked to 4 well-known shops.
I checked out several used 996s earlier this week, at a high-end used vehicle dealership. The only service records for the cars are on the carfax report but they are agreeable to a delivering the car for a PPI.However, I find it interesting that even the highest recommended indy Porsche shop (with the highest price...almost $600) does not include scoping a single cylinder via spark plug, nor to they deem it all that necessary. The dealer has changed the oil recently so a UOA is of no value. The 996 with the BBS wheels pictured in the above post - had a coolant reservoir that was bone dry, I pointed that out to the sales guy and he said they "must have missed that". Ummm yeah, red flag for me. I'm super leary of used car dealers buying cars at auction, doing the bare minium maintenance to sell them. Possibly filling them with engine or system sealants as a temporary fix. Got home and read dealer google reviews...there are some pretty negative reviews followed by combative responses from the owner/gm. Quoting often the cars are sold AS IS- NO WARRANTY. Obviously this isn't the car or dealer for me.
But my question remains re: PPI. If bore-scoring is such a wide-spread/eminent issue w/ the 996.2 why are indy shops not recommending or including it? And I talked to 4 well-known shops.
scoping from the spark plugs wont necessarily show bore scoring, and removing spark plugs involves removing exhaust tips and mufflers, remove a heat shield, ignition coil and spark plug. It's not like a normal car where you just pop the hood and unscrew the coil. Cylinder 6 (which is on the passenger side, closest to the front of the car) is easily accessible by only removing the rear right wheel. but like I said sticking a borescope in there will only tell you if there is scoring in the top of cylinder 6, which I guess is better than nothing. if you really want to properly rule out scoring you'd have to drain the oil and drop the sump to scope the bottom of each cylinder, which would involve being charged for the oil change and new gasket for the sump.
that dealer does sound like a hack, I think you're wise to keep looking
This is why i gave up on any dealerships and searched private sellers and eventually bought a local car on Bring a Trailer. The dealers also snag up cars and because porsches are typically not driven as much as the ****box camry's they are selling they say its 'low mileage' and throw that in your face every chance they get to justify the stupid high asking price. Low mileages is BAD in a car that needs to be driven to stay healthy. The higher profile auction sites ( BaT and Cars and Bids) attracts sellers of a higher caliber that know in order to get good money they need to do all the common sense inspections and provide records etc. My seller included oil analysis history, and bore scope pictures.
I also found similar things with PPI's. It seems they want to keep the costs down so they dont include the bore scope. It took me over 2 hours to R&R the spark plugs, but for a shop I imagine till take a little over an hour maybe without the time of doing the bore scope? That could add 100-200$ to the PPI and turn customers off to it is my guess, but I agree it seems pretty damn important.
Bizarre circumstances backed me into forgoing a PPI (I learned from this board some things to look/listen for on a cold start) and I ended up doing a thorough post-purchase inspection from a great indy (Fisher in IL) which included a scope. I dodged a bullet and passed. Only minor sorting issues. The total post-purchase inspection, with scope, was only a few hundred dollars. Rick F said he checked the one cylinder most prone to scoring (#5 or 6?), and if that was fine the rest would/should be fine too. Maybe the shop you talked to was charging to scope all six?
But my question remains re: PPI. If bore-scoring is such a wide-spread/eminent issue w/ the 996.2 why are indy shops not recommending or including it? And I talked to 4 well-known shops.
Two things on a PPI.
1. You want them to drop the sump and see what bits are in there.
2. When you drop the sump, you want to scope it from the sump.
In answer to your question, they don't drop the sump and scope it because it's a pain in the ***. Buyers get so excited about owning a 996 that they are willing to overlook these steps.
Add: I am going to add one more point. BORESCORING is a relatively new issue. I have owned my 996 for 21 years and never heard of it until I joined RL in 2019. Common sense reasons why it happens and common sense reasons on how to prevent it. Most importantly to change your oil at the very least 2x a year.
My info on the M96 came from the PCA DE and Club Racing community in partnership with my Indy. Borescoring comes from owners who don't change the oil and don't replace parts as they should. Many never drive the car as it should be driven. They keep it under 5k rpm and baby it.
In contrast, the DE and Club Racing community over service their cars and drive their cars. Oil changes occur before they go on the track and right after. Hell, i have had over 82 oil changes since 2002. Approximately an oil change every 700 miles. The number of oil changes would be substantially higher but i haven't tracked my car much over the past 5 years. Just driving around town.
This track community is more worried about preventing AOS failure, oil starvation and cooling issues with the proper parts and procedures than bore scoring.
Think about it, they are running the best oil, its always fresh, the best fuel, and the spark plugs, ignition coils, fuel injectors and MAF are always fresh. As such, bore scoring is a non-event. So the indy community that supports DE and Club racing don't see it as much. FWIW.
There is a lesson to be learned from the above paragraph. Hope folks eventually catch on.
02-28-2023, 09:14 AM
