CaptJD

New member here with questions.
At age 65 I decided to have a weekend toy car to play around and a 2000 Porsche 911 Carrera Millennium Edition caught my eye. Mainly for being a Porsche and for being sale at $24,000 asking price. I find it too good to be true first but shortly after I realized that the price was due to car having a "REBUILD" title...
So, a salvage was purchased and fixed. CarFax reports show this 2000 model 911 was purchased in 2000 (obviously) and then driven 32000 miles until 2015.. which I found extremely low average mileage. then in 2015 it had the accident and damaged front left end and totaled by the insurance.
Then purchased by a body shop owner and fixed and got REBUILD Title issued in 2015 and then driven up to 44,000 mile (currently) and up for sale.

I am aware of the IMS and RMS issues with these model and years involved...

My question is, when Porsche issued this Recall or Service bulletin or whatever at the time has been made owners aware of this issue?
I assume Porsche should became aware of this issue after during the 15 year following this 911 Millennium Edition, like other models of in that era 996 engines.

So, since current seller is the 4th or 5th owner he does not know if IMS issue has been taken care of or not... How could I find it for sure? But also what are the chances a Porsche owner will disregard the recall if it was been issued between 2000 and 2015...

Also, when this car totaled in 2015 with ~ 33,000 miles on it that means it was driven an average of less than 2,200 miles a year. Is that normal?
Currently 44,000 miles mean still in 22+ years this car did not exceed an average of 2000 miles/year.

Does all of these models suffer from IMS issue or only few or what? How can I be sure that IMS won't be an issue after me getting this car if I go ahead and purchase it?
Thanks in advance,

Ben8jam

CaptJD

Just wanted to join you so you won't feel lonely !

RWPinNC

I can't give you a complete answer but may have some useful observations.....

• I bought my first Porsche 5 years ago at age 70, after years of BMWs and other cars. Have found a new set of good friends in local PCA and great pleasure in driving.
• A salvage title will always affect value.
• A mitigating positive would be if the seller has maintained the car and kept thorough records including documentation of accident repair work. It's been 7-8 years since rebuild, sufficient time to build a good service history. If insufficient records, assume car has not been serviced and walk away.
• Have a thorough inspection by a Porsche or bodywork specialist.
• At this mileage, assume the IMSB is unchanged if no LN sticker or other record, As a 2000, it should have the more robust double row IMSB so less of a risk. Porsche NA might have a recall notice or record.
• With good records, low mileage and a clean title, it might be a 30-35k car. Millenium Edition wouldnt add much value. At 24k, with any deferred maintenance expense, you could be at 30k quickly. If you're going to keep the car for a while, the "salvage penalty" will diminish somewhat, but will still exist. If inspection and records are positive, then this could be a good bet and the price can be justified. If not, then this becomes a 20k dice roll.

Keep us posted.

parris

For what I have seen, insurance companies in US are easy on totaling a car. That means that, your car could have had a very sever damage or just an expensive damage, but not as severe, that could have been repair well.

What I would do is, to hire on of those companies that are able to make a technical report of the car and how it is repaired (and if there is any damabe in the frame still, out of geometry, etc). I have seen some of those reports and they are very detailed, with pictures, etc. Sorry I dont remember the name of the company, but there are several that you can hire online.

If the report comes out ok, and you are planing to keep the car (remember that the rebuild title will affect the car resale value), go for it. It can be a good opportunity to get in a 911 at a good price

wdb

With the additional mileage on the car I wouldn't worry about mechanical issues related to the accident or repairs, but that does not rule out cosmetics.

Don't go crazy fretting about the IMSB.

Get a PPI from a reputable shop. Offer $20K if the PPI comes back clean. A salvage title will always be a salvage title and will affect the car's value for at least the next decade if not longer.

yelcab

Move on. You can get a clear title 996 for about the same or slightly more, certainly under $30K.

dporto

There is no way… under any circumstances that a salvage title 996 is “worth” $30-$35k. ‘Nuff said

CaptJD

Thank you for all the replies.
As I understood there are 3 types of auto titles in the US:
a) Clean - a vehicle with no remarkable accidents since day 1 will have...
b) Salvage - a vehicle will be issued after insurance company considers not to fix the damage due to being either too extensive or expensive compared to car's value...
c) Rebuilt - will be issued after a vehicle with a Salvage title is purchased by a person or entity and rebuild in its original shape and specs and after an inspection performed by Highway Patrol personnel OK the vehicle for safe operation.

This vehicle have REBUILT title...

As for the value issue ; I know many people are asking why am I even consider purchasing a 996 with a REBUILT title for $24,000 (or maybe a little less) while there are many of them out there with clean title for just about the same price or merely a thousand or more dollars.
I don't know if those of you miss the car model I am talking about. I am considering this model 996 because ONLY because it is a 2000 Porsche 911 Carrera Millennium Edition...

There was one with 24000 miles and clean title and she was sold last month at an auction for US$52,300 and currently another one is on the market with a clean title and similar mileage for US$47,500....
As I understood this limited edition Porsche models which was built only 911 of them worldwide has a different value than any other ordinary 2000 model standard 911 models.

I don't want any regular or standard 996 with black interior even if it was at the same mileage and IMSB and RMS issues already taken care of etc that comes with black or grey interior and at their usual dash setup...

I am aware that this car's value will be lower due to being issued a REBUILT title. That is the reason this 996 is listed for $24000 and not like the others are sold or selling for over $45k or $50k price tag...
Unfortunately since I did not hit the Super Lotto jackpot as of this moment, I am not wealthy enough to fork out $47,500 to have a toy car to play around at weekends. The motorcycle in my garage cost me $28000. So if my toy car is under that amount I am ok with that.

If anyone of you know a 2000 Millennium Edition 911 with Clean title around $28,000 that has less than 45k miles on it, please let me know; I will buy it today!
Just please don't tell me any other typical 996 of that era are available for the same price or a little more. I saw them and I won't consider buying them even if they were $15,000 with a clean title.
If I ever buy a toy weekend Porsche it will be the one called 2000 Millennium Edition... Because of the dash design, interior color, exterior special paint color, being built in limited numbers worldwide etc., I want one of those at an affordable price for me!

So if I could manage to buy this one for, let's say $22,000 and enjoy it for a year or two or three. I won't mind if I have to sell and only brings me $15,000... I know I am not going to make money on it as same as my motorcycle. My profit is the FUN I am planning to have with these vehicles! Nothing more, nothing less.

But of course I don't want to end up with a $22,000 worth boat anchor or paper weight in my garage either. So, since I was never into Porsche models until now, I was wondering what is this IMSB or RMSB issues people talking about.
In the past I owned BMW 745Li then 750Li and then MB SL550 but never heard or experienced bearings seizing or oil leakage problems in the years I drove them and not only as a weekend vehicle but as a commuter.

So this Millennium Edition feels like a collectors item to me even if it wasn't revered by most of the Porsche owners who won't take a second look at this model.
Again thanks for all the comments friends...

CaptJD

My main question is does this IMSB issue was ever a recall issued by Porsche ?

Or was it like, " well we sold you a high performance car and the engine may mess up at anytime due to a questionable part quality or engineering issue and when it happens pay up and fix it you suckers" kind of issue...

Because when a car or motorcycle manufacturer issues a recall no matter what's the current condition of those vehicles whether effected or non effected at that moment IMHO owners take it to the dealerships and get the necessary fix performed on them.

Was this IMSB issue a " weeeell, if you feel like it do it otherwise, don't bother with it " kind of issue?

And what is the ratio of the effected cars with this issue? 1% or 10% or 50% of the 996 models suffer? As owners what was your experience? Because if Porsche tells the owners this problem may occur at 5000 mile or 50000 mile or God knows when then if there was a recall is it for the lifetime of the vehicle? Some people reach 50000 mile in 2 years some drivers after 10 years don't have still 50000 showing on their odometers.
Does Porsche offering owners roll the dice to see if they are lucky or SOL at some point during their ownership?

RngTrtl

I dont feel like typing out a novel here, so long story short is I would dodge this like the plague. You should be able to find a pretty good 996 for 25-30k that has little to no stories.

charlieaf92

The IMSB has been discussed to death on the forums but here is a quick answer to your question.

There was never a recall. People that had failure that were covered under warranty had an engine replaced by Porsche and there is probably documentation somewhere. The vast majority of people that have addressed it did so proactively and via third party (Porsche did not provide a solution short of a new engine). Without a sticker, or documentation, that the bearing has been replaced - assume it has not. Period. If you don't want to worry about it - have the IMS Solution installed and never lose sleep again.

Cheers
Charlie

mffarrell

^
This is the most sound advice you will get here. The end!

CaptJD

Thank you Charlie. That was my question all along since some people were saying don't bother if you don't have metal shaving in your oil filter and drive it forever happily.
Then some say if it's not being done you're screwed because your engine will seize at any moment maybe 1000 miles later or 10000 miles later but it is guaranteed to fail.
That was confusing to me since this seems to be a major issue how in the world it could be addressed so vaguely by Porsche and why even a Porsche owner would skip this Free Fix while their vehicle is still under warranty?
I was curious about that...
But it seems like even though this car I was interested in looks good, it may not be my cup of tea...
Most likely I'll skip it....

My thinking was if I can get it for $20,000-$22,000 range I'd be ok even at the end if I have to part it out... But I guess I was wrong!

CaptJD

Even though you didn't want typing out a novel, you still did type more than needed.

If you read my post, I mentioned clearly I won't consider buying any other "pretty good 996" for $25-30k even if they dropped their price to $15k for me.The only reason I considered this 996 for it is being the Millennium Edition setup.
During my search for USED Porsche models this one was not the only car I've found as anyone can imagine. I came across 100s of that era 996 models at the same price range and there was a reason I didn't consider any of them at all.

Now if I find another "pretty good" Millennium Edition for $25-30k with little or no story..... Well that is whole a lot of different story and I can write a novel about that finding!!