iflypropplanes

Hi all

I'm new here, but wanted to get some opinions from this group. I currently have a 99 986 Boxter that I've had for about a year. I love the car and can't help but think I'd love it more with a bit more power, so I'm considering a 996.

I've got my eye on a 1999 996 cab. It's a rare color that I love, but it has 110k miles. The engine was overhauled by a guy that owns a reputable Porsche indy shop. It's a flip, but I believe he's doing the right things, knows what he's doing, and is asking a fair price for what he has ($21,000).

The engine had a previous shop install a scavenge pump on backwards causing oil starvation spinning a main bearing. He replaced the crank and carrier, rings, chain wear pads, water pump, low temp thermostat, flywheel, clutch, plugs, coils, engine mounts, trans mount, LN IMS bearing (he's a certified installer), updated coolant tank, and new injectors. The pics show no bore scoring. It's the original suspension. I live in a cold climate and am trying to get one last sanity check around the bore scoring and other potential issues. I'm a car guy, but don't have a good setup to do work myself so I'll have to pay for work done.

All of my "porsche guy" friends are mixed on this one. Some say its a great buy, others saying to run away and these cars are a world of problems. Reminding me a full rebuild will cost more than the car.

What do you guys think? For something with this many miles that doesn't show any bore scoring, will have me keeping an eye on it, changing the oil, using good gas, and warming it up properly in the winter....I'd think this is about as solid as you can ask for with a sub $30k 996, right? Or is there anything I'm overlooking that might cause the bore scoring to happen rapidly over time?

Any other opinions or questions I should ask? I do trust the guy and I think he'll give me an honest opinion. Thanks in advance.

Gary12000

Go drive it.. if the Indy has decent reviews and is known to do good work, that's not very much money with all those items that have been done.
if you are OK with the Cab life you will likely get on ok with it...

that's a good entry point to the 911 experience sub 30k and all the heavy maintenance addressed is very reasonable... i had a similar opportunity before i bought my car, i was set on buying this 996 with a rebuilt motor by someone, but when i drove it, i passed as the car didn't feel right... when i drove my car it was significantly better like night and day... you have to drive it and like it... at least you have the 986 to compare it to.

iflypropplanes

That sounds right. I know the market is softening, but its a lot of time to do all of this work.

I'll have to fly down to drive it, but agree 100% that its that last and most critical bit.

Gary12000

Oh ok you have to fly somewhere yeah that's a bummer... i was buying out of state also, after talking to the guy on the phone a couple times i had a feel for the seller, plus he texted me a lot of history going back from previous owners, then i flew in, he picked me up at the airport and took me to the car, let me test drive it for as long as i wanted, encouraged me to put my foot down, we couldn't strike a deal so i left, i was staying locally he called me the next day and we made a deal, it was more than i wanted to spend but i liked the car, after i picked it up i drove it home 850 miles in one day.. it operated as expected actually better than i could have hoped for, 18 months later no issues so far... so yes there are good cars out there.

sublm8

Value on that engine alone is pretty close to the ask. You gotta live. I'd get on booking that ticket.

hatchetf15

OP - At that buy-in you’ll have a fresh motor. Have you done due diligence on the shop? Suspension will cost $6,000-$9,000 for full replacement cost range ($4-6,000 diy) with top performance parts. At 100k+ miles that will need doing, if original underpinnings. You’ll be able to recoup some capital if you sell the Boxster. How’s the paint and what’s the interior like?

circuit.heart

This is a familiar call I've made recently. I don't understand the obsession with 5-digit mileage - if these cars fell apart above 100k miles they would have no reputation for quality. Not worried about that. The engine rebuild is way scarier: you don't know where metal bits may have gone inside the engine during the bearing event, so you're trusting that the shop did a thorough job cleaning and inspecting everything before putting the engine back together. At $21k it could be a great buy, but it could also be a ticking time bomb if the shop is only getting it to run long enough to sell.

I would personally pass. An engine that has 100% never had any bad history would be more appealing even at a few thousand dollars premium. At that point you know that all you have to do to keep it running is to stay the course of driving habits and maintenance.

fazm

Who did the rebuild?

As for weather 996 -> 986 is an upgrade, that's a personal choice, as I understand it.

vitaminC

If you like your 986 but want more power, then a 986 (or 7) S is a better upgrade path. The Carrera isn’t that much faster than an S and the handling is not as good (I’ve had both). Granted, the 996 is a better road tripper.

IMHO, don’t buy a pcar because it’s a “deal,” buy it because it’s the one you want.

fazm

^^ there we go.

iflypropplanes

Actually talking with the owner and he'd put on all new suspension for $2200. Like I mentioned, he's got a shop and also sells parts, so it sounds like he'd swap everything out for cost. Feeling like that might be an inexpensive way to future-proof.

allcool

Quote:
You said replaced the rings...? Didn't mention cylinder re-sleeving with nickies or steel. So assume its a stock oem 120k mile block...?

iflypropplanes

Correct. Original 110k mile block, but everything was completely disassembled, cleaned, and put back together with nearly everything as new. No signs of bore scoring, so he didn't do the bore sleeves, but new fuel pump, vacuum lines, all bearings, gaskets, etc.

allcool

Quote:
With a 110k miles on the block structure, ALL the experts say the cylinder out of round and taper will be way out. As NONE make it to 100k with in spec cylinders.

Cylinders can look perfect, but be far from perfect. I measured a block that did 'look' perfect at 60k, but were less than .001" from being over out of round & taper specs @ 60k miles.

Your rebuild shop must have measured cylinders in the rebuild I'd hope, ask them what it was. .0035" is what LN Charles says is max specs.
Unfortunately many shops that don't have vast experience with loco-sil m96 blocks, or even if they do, once they see good looking cylinder bores they go no farther and don't want to know. Especially if their goal is to rebuild the least expensive way out for the best profit. Knowing that the engine will run like this at least for a while.

Many Engine Re-builders/car sellers are hoping even with over limit oor, ring/piston seal is not bad enough to have obvious piston slap, excess blowby, or blowing out tailpipe smoke at least until its sold for a while, sold as is.

And in their defense, once they know the 'good looking' block is trash and needs $7500+ more $$$$$ worth of sleeving/shipping/pistons/rods?/etc, they feel going from a non running spun main bearing to at least a running engine (with a load of good new parts) is a step forward as its almost impossible to justify the extra co$t to a flipper...

Even if the cylinders where somehow in spec (going against what Charles from LN and other M96 engine experts have posted on here) you still can't hone these silicone impregnated loca-sil cylinders to seat new rings. @110k miles, cylinders are more than likely way OOR. Using new rings with old oem pistons that can't have any NEEDED ferrous type coating left on them to play good with loca-sil cylinders,, will be very short lived and more than likely rings will never seat, and engine will have piston slap/ ripe for bore score.

What I'm saying is, @110k without sleeving the cylinders, can't do a dependable durable lasting rebuild at all. Thats what the m96 engine is all about. Re-engineered $30,000-70k engines.

You say he changed crank and carrier. new crank is 6k, used recon'd ones 4k, if you can find 1. Was this a used crank..? Was it reconditioned, checked for cracks..? New main and rod bearings..?

To answer your question with what I'd do if in the market for a 996...?
IMO, go for 997.2. Or better yet, a 996 turbo or gt with a bullet proof legendary Mezger engine and enjoy some real power/reliability/durability. That way you can enjoy the superb 996 chassis and the beauty of its bodywork with 400+HP.
What’s special about the Mezger engine? Listen to its mechanical sizzle and tingling, sharp-edged howl, and remember its history, what it has achieved. Then you’ll know.


Or just keep and enjoy your Boxter.

Hey, you asked....

JMHO

PS..
As long as i touched on the topic...

From the owner of Pelican Parts some time ago:
"hypereutectic aluminum silicon alloy cyl bores, the honing process destroys the etched layer, and renders them useless. These type cylinders are a one-time-use product, and should not be used again if the engine is rebuilt. Cylinders cannot be reliably re-ringed. This indeed is a common misconception in some Porsche circles. There are no replacement rings available that are specifically designed for the cylinders. Of course, throwing out your current pistons and cylinders leads to the large expense of new ones, so a lot of people reuse them anyway. In some cases, the new set of rings seat fine, and they indeed can be reused successfully. However, you cannot hone these cylinders, nor predict whether the rings will indeed seat properly. The correct action to take is to purchase new pistons and cylinders, otherwise you may be tearing down your engine again in less than a mere 1000 miles."

Best chance for ring seal if all cylinder specs are in limits, don’t pull the pistons out of the cylinders and don’t dislodge or disturb the rings. Of course, you are taking a risk here that you will have worn rings in the very near future. I don’t necessarily recommend playing the odds like this, but if you’re rebuilding a good running engine with excellent leak-down numbers for the purpose of replacing non-wear problem, then it might be a good bet."

sasilverbullet

Yes, upgrade to a 996! I had a 02 Boxster, 996 is a world better...

My .02, don't get a cab, too many problems with the top mechanism. And don't get a 996.1, get a 996.2 C2, stay away from the C4's, much more to go wrong.