Is a stock 996.1 okay for autocross?
04-05-2024, 01:54 PM
#16
True! With the gear ratio of a 996 after the start it is usually pop it into 2nd and drive. I've heard from the seasoned AutoX professionals "not to downshift in a super tight corners unless that will gain you 3 seconds which is what you lose when down then up shifting." Besides the 996 has a lot of low end grunt in my experience...at least mine does.
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168glhs1986 (04-05-2024)
04-05-2024, 02:26 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
You shouldn't have any trouble with your stock car. I have done both autox and track days with my stock 996.2. That being said, as De Jeeper mentioned in his response, I'm not going back to track my car again until I get the UAOS, which is expected to arrive next week. As you plan for your autocross, you should get your number assigned in advance and have a magnetic sticker made. That way you won't look like a newbie with your number in blue painters' tape on the side. I went the full Caddy Shack and made my sticker 18x24 with the number, an American flag and my stripper name on it.
04-05-2024, 02:46 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
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04-06-2024, 10:26 AM
#20
I'm in the exact same boat. My 18 year old is ready to take off. Tons of Sim experience and the occasional snow drifting experience in Md. Limited track exposure but that's about to change.
Our training grounds is going to be skid pad training / intro to autocross.
I have many options for him. 996.1 built, 996.2 built, gt4 RS, 1999 Boxster, fully track prepped m2 CS manual, 944 spec race car. All those are manual except for the 4rs which really isn't a good option.
I don't want to put him in the situation where he can money shift so....for skid pads the 996.2 will be fine and for his intro to autocross he will likely be in 2nd gear.
Once he gets more into it I'll be getting a PDK Cayman base. This goes for my daughter as well. She turns 16 in 2 days. She will be wanting to do some motorsport fun.
Our training grounds is going to be skid pad training / intro to autocross.
I have many options for him. 996.1 built, 996.2 built, gt4 RS, 1999 Boxster, fully track prepped m2 CS manual, 944 spec race car. All those are manual except for the 4rs which really isn't a good option.
I don't want to put him in the situation where he can money shift so....for skid pads the 996.2 will be fine and for his intro to autocross he will likely be in 2nd gear.
Once he gets more into it I'll be getting a PDK Cayman base. This goes for my daughter as well. She turns 16 in 2 days. She will be wanting to do some motorsport fun.
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GC996 (04-06-2024)
04-07-2024, 03:15 PM
#21
I'm trying to answer this question myself, i've been bringing my 996.1 to events, and trying to figure out how to set it up. If your son is indeed very very competitive, I think it's worth taking a moment to understand the classing before making any changes to the car.
I only started looking into classing this year, so someone correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe I've handicapped myself. In Bstreet, the 996 looks fairly competitive. See https://rennlist.com/forums/autocros...-bs-996-a.html
However, I've put lowering springs and spacers on to fix the horrendous factory fitment. Just doing this bumps the car to Street touring, SST, where it has to face off against the 718 and 981 chassis, among other cars it really can't compete against. See https://rennlist.com/forums/autocros...ispreloading=1
At the moment I'd rather the car look better than be more competitive, since I'm not a good enough driver yet anyways. The PCA regional autocross events near me also have a better class for 996's I can focus on. Just something to be aware of
I only started looking into classing this year, so someone correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe I've handicapped myself. In Bstreet, the 996 looks fairly competitive. See https://rennlist.com/forums/autocros...-bs-996-a.html
However, I've put lowering springs and spacers on to fix the horrendous factory fitment. Just doing this bumps the car to Street touring, SST, where it has to face off against the 718 and 981 chassis, among other cars it really can't compete against. See https://rennlist.com/forums/autocros...ispreloading=1
At the moment I'd rather the car look better than be more competitive, since I'm not a good enough driver yet anyways. The PCA regional autocross events near me also have a better class for 996's I can focus on. Just something to be aware of
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peterp (04-07-2024)
04-07-2024, 05:30 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I'm trying to answer this question myself, i've been bringing my 996.1 to events, and trying to figure out how to set it up. If your son is indeed very very competitive, I think it's worth taking a moment to understand the classing before making any changes to the car.
I only started looking into classing this year, so someone correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe I've handicapped myself. In Bstreet, the 996 looks fairly competitive. See https://rennlist.com/forums/autocros...-bs-996-a.html
However, I've put lowering springs and spacers on to fix the horrendous factory fitment. Just doing this bumps the car to Street touring, SST, where it has to face off against the 718 and 981 chassis, among other cars it really can't compete against. See https://rennlist.com/forums/autocros...ispreloading=1
At the moment I'd rather the car look better than be more competitive, since I'm not a good enough driver yet anyways. The PCA regional autocross events near me also have a better class for 996's I can focus on. Just something to be aware of
I only started looking into classing this year, so someone correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe I've handicapped myself. In Bstreet, the 996 looks fairly competitive. See https://rennlist.com/forums/autocros...-bs-996-a.html
However, I've put lowering springs and spacers on to fix the horrendous factory fitment. Just doing this bumps the car to Street touring, SST, where it has to face off against the 718 and 981 chassis, among other cars it really can't compete against. See https://rennlist.com/forums/autocros...ispreloading=1
At the moment I'd rather the car look better than be more competitive, since I'm not a good enough driver yet anyways. The PCA regional autocross events near me also have a better class for 996's I can focus on. Just something to be aware of
He should be getting his own car soon. Thinking maybe a used Alfa Giulia.
04-07-2024, 05:56 PM
#23
I think they allow spacers up to a certain size, you might need to get thinner ones. You can read the rules here: https://www.scca-classifier.com/. I also did my first few autox on michelin all seasons before getting ps4s, the car is going to push really hard but yeah it doesn't really matter the first few times.
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peterp (04-07-2024)
04-08-2024, 10:14 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
I have a stock/mint 996.1 (coupe/6sp/2wd) that I'd like to have my son do a few autocrosses in. He'll get his own car shortly, but I'd like for him to have the autocross experience first. He has a ton of experience in sim (iRacing) and karting, and is very, very competitive, but he hasn't done any competitive driving in a car. I don't want his sim/karting experience to result in "overconfidence" on a track day ending poorly at high speeds 
, so I'm thinking autocross is a good first step.
My question is, is a stock 996.1 okay to use for autocross? I know for full track days, a deeper oil pan and probably some other changes are needed to prevent oil starvation in high-speed corners, but it it safe to assume that these are not issues for the far lower speeds in autocross?
, so I'm thinking autocross is a good first step.My question is, is a stock 996.1 okay to use for autocross? I know for full track days, a deeper oil pan and probably some other changes are needed to prevent oil starvation in high-speed corners, but it it safe to assume that these are not issues for the far lower speeds in autocross?
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peterp (04-08-2024)
04-08-2024, 01:35 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
04-20-2024, 02:22 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
A couple of "autocross 101" questions:
1) Is there a rev limiter that will kick in on the 996.1? This will be my son's first real automotive competitive experience (coming from a strong sim and karting background). He does know not to over-rev the engine, but in the first-time excitement of it all, I'd like to know if there is a rev limiter that kicks in. (I don't really drive the car to the limits, so I've never encountered a rev limiter if it exists).
2) What tire pressure is ideal for autocross? This is with Michelin Pilot Sport all-season tires. From what I could gather from track posts, 35ish PSI seems to be favored at hot temps, so they seem to start around 34 cold. I'm guessing I would start with 35PSI since there isn't much time for tires to get hot during the autocross.
1) Is there a rev limiter that will kick in on the 996.1? This will be my son's first real automotive competitive experience (coming from a strong sim and karting background). He does know not to over-rev the engine, but in the first-time excitement of it all, I'd like to know if there is a rev limiter that kicks in. (I don't really drive the car to the limits, so I've never encountered a rev limiter if it exists).
2) What tire pressure is ideal for autocross? This is with Michelin Pilot Sport all-season tires. From what I could gather from track posts, 35ish PSI seems to be favored at hot temps, so they seem to start around 34 cold. I'm guessing I would start with 35PSI since there isn't much time for tires to get hot during the autocross.
04-20-2024, 03:27 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Peter, there is a rev limiter as you accelerate. But if he downshifts into a lower gear at higher rpms, it can go over max revs. He probably won't have to worry about it because he won't be rowing the gearbox much in autocross. Bigger issue on a racetrack when downshifting from 4th to 3rd and accidentally hitting 1st or 5th to 4th and accidentally hitting 2nd.
Of i remember correctly you have him signed up for an autocross school. If so, they him most likely have him go thru skid pad exercises, acceleration and then hard braking to stop as close as he can to an orange line, slalom exercises around cones and then put it all together with an autocross course in 2nd gear.
It may make sense to take him out to a parking lot and have him go from 1st to 2nd to 3rd under glhard acceleration and back down to 2nd again a few times to get used to the sounds and feelings. Also good to practice accelerating thru the gears and then hard braking and coming to a stop without stalling the car. When and how to use the clutch when decelerating quickly coming to a stop, etc. Also good to have him practice taking the car thru a slalom in 2nd gear to understand its characteristics and then a turn to the right or left as if you are circling around a course.
Regarding tire pressures, it depends on air temps and how hot he will get them. Not to mention the tires you use. On the racetrack pressures can rise 8 lbs from cold. So I'll start my Bridgestone RE71RS at 24F and 25R when cold to get to 32F 33R. But air temps play a big part of if I start lower or higher. So does the number of warm up laps. If its a very hot day, i may start at 23F and 24R or lower and put an extra warm up lap in to get them to my target. The more you do it, the more you can feel how the difference in tire pressure influences grip and characteristics.
On the autocross track i doubt you will have anymore than 3-4 lbs at most as a novice. But i may be wrong. Key is your target pressure for hot tires. I found with my Michelin AS4s that they handle the best on the street at between 33-34F and 35-36R when warm. You can always start there and measure them after every run and see how much they heat up and adjust. But it's an all season tire that I have never tracked or autocrossed, so it's tough to give you a ballpark number for best grip. Get your self a digital tire gauge and check after every run.
Good luck to your son.
Of i remember correctly you have him signed up for an autocross school. If so, they him most likely have him go thru skid pad exercises, acceleration and then hard braking to stop as close as he can to an orange line, slalom exercises around cones and then put it all together with an autocross course in 2nd gear.
It may make sense to take him out to a parking lot and have him go from 1st to 2nd to 3rd under glhard acceleration and back down to 2nd again a few times to get used to the sounds and feelings. Also good to practice accelerating thru the gears and then hard braking and coming to a stop without stalling the car. When and how to use the clutch when decelerating quickly coming to a stop, etc. Also good to have him practice taking the car thru a slalom in 2nd gear to understand its characteristics and then a turn to the right or left as if you are circling around a course.
Regarding tire pressures, it depends on air temps and how hot he will get them. Not to mention the tires you use. On the racetrack pressures can rise 8 lbs from cold. So I'll start my Bridgestone RE71RS at 24F and 25R when cold to get to 32F 33R. But air temps play a big part of if I start lower or higher. So does the number of warm up laps. If its a very hot day, i may start at 23F and 24R or lower and put an extra warm up lap in to get them to my target. The more you do it, the more you can feel how the difference in tire pressure influences grip and characteristics.
On the autocross track i doubt you will have anymore than 3-4 lbs at most as a novice. But i may be wrong. Key is your target pressure for hot tires. I found with my Michelin AS4s that they handle the best on the street at between 33-34F and 35-36R when warm. You can always start there and measure them after every run and see how much they heat up and adjust. But it's an all season tire that I have never tracked or autocrossed, so it's tough to give you a ballpark number for best grip. Get your self a digital tire gauge and check after every run.
Good luck to your son.
Last edited by GC996; 04-20-2024 at 03:29 PM.
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peterp (04-20-2024)
04-20-2024, 08:10 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Peter, there is a rev limiter as you accelerate. But if he downshifts into a lower gear at higher rpms, it can go over max revs. He probably won't have to worry about it because he won't be rowing the gearbox much in autocross. Bigger issue on a racetrack when downshifting from 4th to 3rd and accidentally hitting 1st or 5th to 4th and accidentally hitting 2nd.
Of i remember correctly you have him signed up for an autocross school. If so, they him most likely have him go thru skid pad exercises, acceleration and then hard braking to stop as close as he can to an orange line, slalom exercises around cones and then put it all together with an autocross course in 2nd gear.
It may make sense to take him out to a parking lot and have him go from 1st to 2nd to 3rd under glhard acceleration and back down to 2nd again a few times to get used to the sounds and feelings. Also good to practice accelerating thru the gears and then hard braking and coming to a stop without stalling the car. When and how to use the clutch when decelerating quickly coming to a stop, etc. Also good to have him practice taking the car thru a slalom in 2nd gear to understand its characteristics and then a turn to the right or left as if you are circling around a course.
Regarding tire pressures, it depends on air temps and how hot he will get them. Not to mention the tires you use. On the racetrack pressures can rise 8 lbs from cold. So I'll start my Bridgestone RE71RS at 24F and 25R when cold to get to 32F 33R. But air temps play a big part of if I start lower or higher. So does the number of warm up laps. If its a very hot day, i may start at 23F and 24R or lower and put an extra warm up lap in to get them to my target. The more you do it, the more you can feel how the difference in tire pressure influences grip and characteristics.
On the autocross track i doubt you will have anymore than 3-4 lbs at most as a novice. But i may be wrong. Key is your target pressure for hot tires. I found with my Michelin AS4s that they handle the best on the street at between 33-34F and 35-36R when warm. You can always start there and measure them after every run and see how much they heat up and adjust. But it's an all season tire that I have never tracked or autocrossed, so it's tough to give you a ballpark number for best grip. Get your self a digital tire gauge and check after every run.
Good luck to your son.
Of i remember correctly you have him signed up for an autocross school. If so, they him most likely have him go thru skid pad exercises, acceleration and then hard braking to stop as close as he can to an orange line, slalom exercises around cones and then put it all together with an autocross course in 2nd gear.
It may make sense to take him out to a parking lot and have him go from 1st to 2nd to 3rd under glhard acceleration and back down to 2nd again a few times to get used to the sounds and feelings. Also good to practice accelerating thru the gears and then hard braking and coming to a stop without stalling the car. When and how to use the clutch when decelerating quickly coming to a stop, etc. Also good to have him practice taking the car thru a slalom in 2nd gear to understand its characteristics and then a turn to the right or left as if you are circling around a course.
Regarding tire pressures, it depends on air temps and how hot he will get them. Not to mention the tires you use. On the racetrack pressures can rise 8 lbs from cold. So I'll start my Bridgestone RE71RS at 24F and 25R when cold to get to 32F 33R. But air temps play a big part of if I start lower or higher. So does the number of warm up laps. If its a very hot day, i may start at 23F and 24R or lower and put an extra warm up lap in to get them to my target. The more you do it, the more you can feel how the difference in tire pressure influences grip and characteristics.
On the autocross track i doubt you will have anymore than 3-4 lbs at most as a novice. But i may be wrong. Key is your target pressure for hot tires. I found with my Michelin AS4s that they handle the best on the street at between 33-34F and 35-36R when warm. You can always start there and measure them after every run and see how much they heat up and adjust. But it's an all season tire that I have never tracked or autocrossed, so it's tough to give you a ballpark number for best grip. Get your self a digital tire gauge and check after every run.
Good luck to your son.
Fortunately the sim rig has a clutch and full shifter, so after our 996 session, he has been doing some laps in and older generation Mazda MX-5 (one of the few cars on iRacing that supports manual transmission). He's using the tight legacy Charlotte infield track (as the closest thing to an autocross scenario on iRacing) to try get the foot coordination down. I think the sim also blows the engine if you downshift to the wrong gear, so that is in his brain. It will be interesting to see how he does in the next 996 session after having focused on manual on sim.
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GC996 (04-20-2024)
04-21-2024, 05:04 AM
#30
Start with target (hot) pressure even when tyre is cold as it is
1. Easier to bleed air from the tyre than putting it in.
2. Easier on the tyres
3. Safer
than starting with low pressure when cold.
Knowing this is important. Sticking to this method is then a matter of personal choice.
1. Easier to bleed air from the tyre than putting it in.
2. Easier on the tyres
3. Safer
than starting with low pressure when cold.
Knowing this is important. Sticking to this method is then a matter of personal choice.
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peterp (04-21-2024)