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I have been driving my 996.2 for some time since the rebuild, done at a very reputable shop here in Europe. Anyways, the car did the first 1000 miles or so, went for an oil change, filter was 99% clean. Anyways, this was at;
approx. 77000 miles, then I drive it for 500 miles or so and the digital gauge read 6/8 full and the dipstick 2/3, mind you so no noted consuption, also in the first 1000 miles, I always measure the next morning and on the same exact spot to ensure consistency. Then I drive to the track;
1st track day total miles 150 (t/o 50 hard track miles with Semi slicks etc.), next day digital 4/8 and dipstick around 1/2.
2nd track day total miles 150 as above, next dat digital 2/8 and dipstick around 1/3.
Now I need to stress that I really push the car to the absolute limit. I read somewhere AOS, but mine is new, also that there is some pickup in the wet sump that in high G sucks oil from the pan.
Bottom line, am I fine, or should I warranty my engine?
Why don't you add oil until it reads right on the dipstick and then monitor it? Track days are hard on all the components, engine, tires, suspension, etc. Add oil and check it again after 500 miles. Just my two cents....
Some people do an oil/filter change immediately following a track day. What weight and type of oil are you running?
What oil are you running? Pushing the car hard with slick, it's possible you could be pushing the stock AOS to its limit and upgrading to the track version of UAOS is highly recommended.
Vect - I agree with DBJoe996. Only start a track day with topped off oil. The oil level will be fine for the day if you don’t have leaks. 1/10 second of aeration with a normal sump and low oil will leave you extremely vulnerable to spun bearings, etc. Full is mandatory to keep a stock sump M96 alive. If you push hard, use a high performance oil that resists shear and aeration. I used almost half a quart for a total of 60 minutes driving 9/10ths my last track day.
You can check AOS function with a manometer. I use a .1 dipstick in my .2 motor. I use a plain UAOS and X51 baffles in stock sump.
Vect, tell us about the rebuild, what sump you are using and whether you are using the factory street or motorsports AOS? Any leaks or plumes of smoke on the track or after you start it?
It wasnt uncommin fory 3.4l to burn .5 liters in a track weekend. Thats about 4-5 bars in ths readout. U need to check each morn before starting the day so the motor and oil levels r in a consistant state when the measurement is taken.
I really worry about your oil starvation on the Track....on sticky tires....starting at 2/3rd full then burning another 1/2 qt leaves you extremely venerable to starvation..( it even states this in the owners manual)..
Always use quality Track oil at full level ( or more with UAOS Track Version) .. always use a 50 weight.....Increased oil capacity is always better..
UAOS Track Version is THE best single product to combat oil starvation...
Track oil consumption very normal and very not preferable. As @hbdunn said, check you're intake - if it's oily (I bet it is), like @Porschetech3 said, buy his UAOS with track drain and stop burning the oil that should be lubricating you're engine.
I really wonder how many engines were lost to people running less than full oil levels to help the AOS, not help the AOS enough, burn the little oil they had until the level far too low and then blow the damn thing up, I bet its a bunch.
Running the UAOS with drain my consumption was 1/8 QT/20 min session.
FYI I am running an FVD deep sump with baffles, oil pressure is good. 10w60 Shell Racing (people here swear by it).
1. Checked the coolant level and it seems a bit lower than normal. Maybe 1/2 quart, however no oil present.
2. AOS was changed with the rebuild
3. Throttle body had a drop of oil on the valve itself on the inside part
4. Intake "t" was slick with oil, there is a picture of the napkin. It's not like it was covered in it more like a film. \
5. Oil filler tube has more "sludge" present than normal.
FYI I am running an FVD deep sump with baffles, oil pressure is good. 10w60 Shell Racing (people here swear by it).
1. Checked the coolant level and it seems a bit lower than normal. Maybe 1/2 quart, however no oil present.
2. AOS was changed with the rebuild
3. Throttle body had a drop of oil on the valve itself on the inside part
4. Intake "t" was slick with oil, there is a picture of the napkin. It's not like it was covered in it more like a film. \
5. Oil filler tube has more "sludge" present than normal.
Originally Posted by plpete84
What oil are you running? Pushing the car hard with slick, it's possible you could be pushing the stock AOS to its limit and upgrading to the track version of UAOS is highly recommended.
What is a UAOS? Which one is recommended?
Originally Posted by hatchetf15
Vect - I agree with DBJoe996. Only start a track day with topped off oil. The oil level will be fine for the day if you don’t have leaks. 1/10 second of aeration with a normal sump and low oil will leave you extremely vulnerable to spun bearings, etc. Full is mandatory to keep a stock sump M96 alive. If you push hard, use a high performance oil that resists shear and aeration. I used almost half a quart for a total of 60 minutes driving 9/10ths my last track day.
Yup using a deep sump and 10w60 racing oil (shear and aeration resistant), thanks for sharing the consumption it put's things into perspective that I am on that same level plus minus.
You can check AOS function with a manometer. I use a .1 dipstick in my .2 motor. I use a plain UAOS and X51 baffles in stock sump.
What is the benefit of a .1 dipstick ? I can borrow it from my .1, any recommendation on a specific guide?
Originally Posted by GC996
Vect, tell us about the rebuild, what sump you are using and whether you are using the factory street or motorsports AOS? Any leaks or plumes of smoke on the track or after you start it?
Hey as mention above, deep sump, everything was done from resleeving the block to new pistons etc. I am using the street/stock AOS, generally some times I get a white "puff" on startup, but that goes away in 3-5 secs and then no smoke what so ever. On the way back yesterday I asked my wife who was driving behind to check for smoke and she said absolutely nothing, plus I would also notice.
Originally Posted by hbdunn
You could also look into the intake and see if oil is there. That would indicate some oil is getting pass the AOS.
THanks, checked the throttle body valve and it had on the inside part a solid droplet of oil, the "t" part of the intake had a coating of oil (thin film) not too much
Originally Posted by De Jeeper
It wasnt uncommin fory 3.4l to burn .5 liters in a track weekend. Thats about 4-5 bars in ths readout. U need to check each morn before starting the day so the motor and oil levels r in a consistant state when the measurement is taken.
Roger, thanks for the tip! Thats allot as well good to know. My only track reference point are a m50b25 (e36) and a m54b30 (e46) which both were golden
Originally Posted by Porschetech3
Warranty the engine? Its WAY to premature to even talk about that....
The Stock AOS is very inefficient and is easily over-loaded ,especially on the Track ..
High mileage engines and brand new engines that are not fully broken-in place more burden on the AOS and increase the likelyhood of over-loading ...
I really worry about your oil starvation on the Track....on sticky tires....starting at 2/3rd full then burning another 1/2 qt leaves you extremely venerable to starvation..( it even states this in the owners manual)..
Always use quality Track oil at full level ( or more with UAOS Track Version) .. always use a 50 weight.....Increased oil capacity is always better..
UAOS Track Version is THE best single product to combat oil starvation...
Yup, all great points, I run currently the stock AOS, which one is the track one? I have a deep sump / baffles kit (FVD) and run 10w60 that is extremely popular here.
Originally Posted by zbomb
Track oil consumption very normal and very not preferable. As @hbdunn said, check you're intake - if it's oily (I bet it is), like @Porschetech3 said, buy his UAOS with track drain and stop burning the oil that should be lubricating you're engine.
I really wonder how many engines were lost to people running less than full oil levels to help the AOS, not help the AOS enough, burn the little oil they had until the level far too low and then blow the damn thing up, I bet its a bunch.
Running the UAOS with drain my consumption was 1/8 QT/20 min session.
I mean I burn it seems roughly through 1/6 QT per 30 mins currently. With the deep sump + baffles, stock AOS and 10w60 racing oil that is.
So I just added 1L of oil and checked my data. So I drove 1100 miles incl. the 2 track days (2x - 30min session) and allot of very fast driving in Germany, so autobahn 100 mph, a Slalom event. Well basically the moment oil is operating temp, I push the car to it's limit.
It's been 18 years since i ran a factory AOS on my 2002 996 for the street and track. After 2 failures back to back on the track I had enough of the frail and poorly designed factory AOS. Yes, my oil disappearance during track days was high like yours. Some of it from oil consumption creating plumes of smoke which is not good because if not fixed can lead to hydralock and some of it from pooling in various engine parts which isn't good either. To put it simply, get the factory AOS off your engine ASAP. It will only hurt you on the track amd create a boatload of issues on the street.
About the time of my second AOS failure on the track, my Indy was looking for a fix for the AOS failure problem as well as oil starvation problem that was becoming evident on M96 engines. So they contacted the Grand Am Racing teams in the US that ran the M96 engine for a few years in the Grand Am racing series, before the Mezger race cars were allowed. Their goal was to figure out how they kept the M96 running on the track so they could do the same things to my engine.
What they found for racing was the following.
1. Needed more oil quantity than what was in the OEM oil sump pan to make sure there was always oil under the oil tube when the car was under heavy G braking and turns. So the 2qt deep sump was developed. Over time additional solutions have been developed from accusump systems to the UIDS.
2. Needed a better AOS than the OEM AOS which could handle processing more oil under heavy Gs that would eliminate the risk of hydralock. So the Porsche Motorsports AOS was developed. Over time an additional solution developed called the UAOS Track Version which is substantially better than the Porsche Motosports AOS.
3. Needed better cooling. So air flow parts in combination with more water cooling capabilities such as center radiators and bigger radiators became the norm.
After talking to your rebuild shop about the issues and performing a blow by test I would consider the following as a bare minimum solution (what I do) and the maximum solution (what I am moving too).
Bare Minimum
1. UAOS Track version. Allows you to run 1qt extra oil over full. If your blow by test is good, skip has found yiu can run 2qt of oil over full using the UAOS Track. Wow! This is in contrast to running the factory AOS at 0.5qts of oil under full and the Porsche Motorsports AOS at full. Think about that for a second. Why run an AOS with 0.5 qts less oil or PMS AOS at full oil when you can now run 1-2qts over full with the UAOS Track. No brainer.
2. 2QT deep sump with x51 baffle. Provides another 2 qts of oil on top of the extra 1-2 qts of oil using the UAOS track. Why run a 0.5 qt pan when you can run a 2 qt pan.
Remember, the M96 engine NEEDS lots of high quality oil to control oil pressures and starvation. So you need an AOS that can process large amounts of oil and you need parts that can hold and handle the extra oil.
OEM AOS = (0.5qt) under full
0.5 Deep Sump = +0.5qts over dull
Total Oil = 0qts
PMS AOS = 0qt
2.0 Deep Sump = +2qts over full
Total Oil = +2qts over full
UAOS Track = +1 to +2qts over full
2.0 Deep Sump = +2qts over full
Total Oil = +3 to +4 over full
Which one makes the most sense to you? I choose the 3rd option as a bare minimum.
The maximum option is another discussion that most won't evolve too because they haven't yet spent the money to do option 3 above. We can talk about that at another time.
It's been 18 years since i ran a factory AOS on my 2002 996 for the street and track. After 2 failures back to back on the track I had enough of the frail and poorly designed factory AOS. Yes, my oil disappearance during track days was high like yours. Some of it from oil consumption creating plumes of smoke which is not good because if not fixed can lead to hydralock and some of it from pooling in various engine parts which isn't good either. To put it simply, get the factory AOS off your engine ASAP. It will only hurt you on the track amd create a boatload of issues on the street.
About the time of my second AOS failure on the track, my Indy was looking for a fix for the AOS failure problem as well as oil starvation problem that was becoming evident on M96 engines. So they contacted the Grand Am Racing teams in the US that ran the M96 engine for a few years in the Grand Am racing series, before the Mezger race cars were allowed. Their goal was to figure out how they kept the M96 running on the track so they could do the same things to my engine.
What they found for racing was the following.
1. Needed more oil quantity than what was in the OEM oil sump pan to make sure there was always oil under the oil tube when the car was under heavy G braking and turns. So the 2qt deep sump was developed. Over time additional solutions have been developed from accusump systems to the UIDS.
2. Needed a better AOS than the OEM AOS which could handle processing more oil under heavy Gs that would eliminate the risk of hydralock. So the Porsche Motorsports AOS was developed. Over time an additional solution developed called the UAOS Track Version which is substantially better than the Porsche Motosports AOS.
3. Needed better cooling. So air flow parts in combination with more water cooling capabilities such as center radiators and bigger radiators became the norm.
After talking to your rebuild shop about the issues and performing a blow by test I would consider the following as a bare minimum solution (what I do) and the maximum solution (what I am moving too).
Bare Minimum
1. UAOS Track version. Allows you to run 1qt extra oil over full. If your blow by test is good, skip has found yiu can run 2qt of oil over full using the UAOS Track. Wow! This is in contrast to running the factory AOS at 0.5qts of oil under full and the Porsche Motorsports AOS at full. Think about that for a second. Why run an AOS with 0.5 qts less oil or PMS AOS at full oil when you can now run 1-2qts over full with the UAOS Track. No brainer.
2. 2QT deep sump with x51 baffle. Provides another 2 qts of oil on top of the extra 1-2 qts of oil using the UAOS track. Why run a 0.5 qt pan when you can run a 2 qt pan.
Remember, the M96 engine NEEDS lots of high quality oil to control oil pressures and starvation. So you need an AOS that can process large amounts of oil and you need parts that can hold and handle the extra oil.
OEM AOS = (0.5qt) under full
0.5 Deep Sump = +0.5qts over dull
Total Oil = 0qts
PMS AOS = 0qt
2.0 Deep Sump = +2qts over full
Total Oil = +2qts over full
UAOS Track = +1 to +2qts over full
2.0 Deep Sump = +2qts over full
Total Oil = +3 to +4 over full
Which one makes the most sense to you? I choose the 3rd option as a bare minimum.
The maximum option is another discussion that most won't evolve too because they haven't yet spent the money to do option 3 above. We can talk about that at another time.
Thank you, I am currently running the deeper sump with baffles => https://www.fvd.net/us-en/FVD2079880...t-oil-pan.html, and using high performance 10w60, keeping the temps and oil pressure in check. I do not have any signs of AOS failure, what makes you think my AOS is gone?
04-17-2024, 05:11 PM
Track oil consumption normal?
