Replacement 996 motor out of warranty?
01-01-2006, 10:40 PM
#62
Some suggestions that may help.
First you can call the PCNA number and see what warranty work was done if you have not triggered teh system with your engine failure complaint. Second if that did not/does not work, I would suggest contacting the previous owners ( try the info from CARFAX) and ask what work was done. If there was an RMS or other major work, note the date time and mileage. This work may have "set up" subsequent failure and if it was say 3 years ago, you may have a better case for your appeal to PCNA.
BTW when was your last schedued maintenance and where was it done? IF it was done at the dealer inquestion RECENTLY you again have more information for your appeal.
Next I would try to find the name of the PCNA zone REP and not go thru the dealer if possible. Remember your delaer may have a conflict of interest in your case if they providied service for your car previously. If he/she presents your case to PCNA they may not do it to your best interest.
Next when these avenues fail, try to escalate slowly and cautiously. A partial credit to parts, a large trade in allowance towards a new or newer porsche are all options and generally speaking victories. Decide what you want to get, would accept, and would feel violated by ahead of time. Remember the actual cost of the engine is likely 5K even a "full credit" trade-in allowance toward a new car is basically a 8-10k credit to you but likely only costs Porsche about 1-3K. A base Cayman is only 60+K and a 99 996 may bring 38K as a full trade-in and leave 22k to cover for a cayman whereas your 38K car plus 8 K for the repair still leaves you a 38K car with a questionable history. Obviously the numbers are higher for a CAB ( it was a cab right?)
First you can call the PCNA number and see what warranty work was done if you have not triggered teh system with your engine failure complaint. Second if that did not/does not work, I would suggest contacting the previous owners ( try the info from CARFAX) and ask what work was done. If there was an RMS or other major work, note the date time and mileage. This work may have "set up" subsequent failure and if it was say 3 years ago, you may have a better case for your appeal to PCNA.
BTW when was your last schedued maintenance and where was it done? IF it was done at the dealer inquestion RECENTLY you again have more information for your appeal.
Next I would try to find the name of the PCNA zone REP and not go thru the dealer if possible. Remember your delaer may have a conflict of interest in your case if they providied service for your car previously. If he/she presents your case to PCNA they may not do it to your best interest.
Next when these avenues fail, try to escalate slowly and cautiously. A partial credit to parts, a large trade in allowance towards a new or newer porsche are all options and generally speaking victories. Decide what you want to get, would accept, and would feel violated by ahead of time. Remember the actual cost of the engine is likely 5K even a "full credit" trade-in allowance toward a new car is basically a 8-10k credit to you but likely only costs Porsche about 1-3K. A base Cayman is only 60+K and a 99 996 may bring 38K as a full trade-in and leave 22k to cover for a cayman whereas your 38K car plus 8 K for the repair still leaves you a 38K car with a questionable history. Obviously the numbers are higher for a CAB ( it was a cab right?)
01-02-2006, 09:59 AM
#63
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by 996FLT6
Darn JimB why you had to put a pic of a red GT3 behind you : (. JK : ). Just awesome : ) !!! MIke
Actually the GT3 is an amazing car. Usually I'm about even with them on the straight but this one was faster. My car is usually faster in the corners. I'm not sure how I got away from him. He might have had a problem.
Oh yea, for the 993 guys that have dropped in to tell us how great their cars are. Well, they are but on this day we out qualified and beat a Euro 993 RSCS and two 993 TTs. More
s. The RSCS did beat us in the enduro. I had a shifter problem but he me might have beat me anyway. They are great cars. My point in all this. 996s are great cars. Very much deserving of the 911 badge. Stop bitching and drive.
Jim
01-02-2006, 03:53 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
I have a 2002 M3 which I bought CPO from a dealer and I do know that when I brought it in and had the service history checked after my purchase that it had been done in Oct 2004 at no cost by the previous dealer at cost to BMW. (I didn't know of the dirty secret rod bearing failures in the 2002 M3's at the time of purchase). Also I do have a 4yr/100k warranty or whatever the current CPO warranty is on the car which will cover the vehicle plus the dealer has said that if the repair needs to be done again (which has happened on some M3's) then BMW has instructed them to repair them at their cost again! So that is some comfort knowing that at least the manufacturer in this case BMW has recognized their problems (its due to the increased rpm of the S54 engines and length of the rods/bearing in quesiton) and stood by a fix for them...which I hear also included discounting engines to dealers for replacement too as well.
As the current owner of a pre-owned 996; I haven't had any problems. <knock on wood> but I do pray that there will be no hidden defects in the future to interfere with my love of my P-car. I do feel for those that have and both sides of the argument have pros and cons. I just think that PAG/PCNA could have handle it a lil differently and a lil better especially when this seems not to be just 1 or 2 guys out of the blue every year saying hey my 996 just died on me while sitting in traffic or something.
Just my 2 cents since folks were comparing the M3 problems with the 996 and I happen to own both.
As the current owner of a pre-owned 996; I haven't had any problems. <knock on wood> but I do pray that there will be no hidden defects in the future to interfere with my love of my P-car. I do feel for those that have and both sides of the argument have pros and cons. I just think that PAG/PCNA could have handle it a lil differently and a lil better especially when this seems not to be just 1 or 2 guys out of the blue every year saying hey my 996 just died on me while sitting in traffic or something.
Just my 2 cents since folks were comparing the M3 problems with the 996 and I happen to own both.
01-02-2006, 05:25 PM
#65
Pro
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Newport Beach, California
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"...With a Porsche, I think that means having an extra $10k in your pocket at all times. For a Ferrari, it's a lot more. For a NSX it's probably less. If not, buy something more sensible.
Jim"
i gave the same advice to friend looking at a 996 for less than half of it's original sticker. even though youre buying it for $35k the replacemnet parts and service costs are still comensurate w/ a $80,000 dollar car! this is the biggest reason i lease today vs. buyng - especially a p-car.
good luck to the original poster. i'd go with a factory rebuilt mill, but then you've got a well-worn gearbox that could do the same in the near future. mine failed at 45k miles.
Jim"
i gave the same advice to friend looking at a 996 for less than half of it's original sticker. even though youre buying it for $35k the replacemnet parts and service costs are still comensurate w/ a $80,000 dollar car! this is the biggest reason i lease today vs. buyng - especially a p-car.
good luck to the original poster. i'd go with a factory rebuilt mill, but then you've got a well-worn gearbox that could do the same in the near future. mine failed at 45k miles.
01-02-2006, 05:44 PM
#66
Ironman 140.6
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by mdrobc1213
I have a 2002 M3 which I bought CPO from a dealer and I do know that when I brought it in and had the service history checked after my purchase that it had been done in Oct 2004 at no cost by the previous dealer at cost to BMW. (I didn't know of the dirty secret rod bearing failures in the 2002 M3's at the time of purchase). Also I do have a 4yr/100k warranty or whatever the current CPO warranty is on the car which will cover the vehicle plus the dealer has said that if the repair needs to be done again (which has happened on some M3's) then BMW has instructed them to repair them at their cost again! So that is some comfort knowing that at least the manufacturer in this case BMW has recognized their problems (its due to the increased rpm of the S54 engines and length of the rods/bearing in quesiton) and stood by a fix for them...which I hear also included discounting engines to dealers for replacement too as well.
As the current owner of a pre-owned 996; I haven't had any problems. <knock on wood> but I do pray that there will be no hidden defects in the future to interfere with my love of my P-car. I do feel for those that have and both sides of the argument have pros and cons. I just think that PAG/PCNA could have handle it a lil differently and a lil better especially when this seems not to be just 1 or 2 guys out of the blue every year saying hey my 996 just died on me while sitting in traffic or something.
Just my 2 cents since folks were comparing the M3 problems with the 996 and I happen to own both.
As the current owner of a pre-owned 996; I haven't had any problems. <knock on wood> but I do pray that there will be no hidden defects in the future to interfere with my love of my P-car. I do feel for those that have and both sides of the argument have pros and cons. I just think that PAG/PCNA could have handle it a lil differently and a lil better especially when this seems not to be just 1 or 2 guys out of the blue every year saying hey my 996 just died on me while sitting in traffic or something.
Just my 2 cents since folks were comparing the M3 problems with the 996 and I happen to own both.
However, there is no engine flaw (that I have heard of) that is causing M96's to "grenade".
01-02-2006, 06:21 PM
#67
Chandler!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I just posted in the 997 forum that I've never had an RMS issues with either my 2001 or my 2004, that is until I received a phone call from the dealer saying that I had an RMS issue with my 2004.
Interesting to note that I never had an oil leak in the car (33,000 miles) until now. I've been off from work for the past 3 weeks on vacation, something I haven't done in about 6 years. For the most part the car sat in the garage during that time. I'm convinced if I would have been driving the car I never would have had an RMS issues... but who knows??
In a way I'm glad it happened now under warranty. Because if it happens again, I ain't paying for it.
C'est la vie
Rob
Interesting to note that I never had an oil leak in the car (33,000 miles) until now. I've been off from work for the past 3 weeks on vacation, something I haven't done in about 6 years. For the most part the car sat in the garage during that time. I'm convinced if I would have been driving the car I never would have had an RMS issues... but who knows??
In a way I'm glad it happened now under warranty. Because if it happens again, I ain't paying for it.
C'est la vie
Rob
01-02-2006, 06:26 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
Hi - first post here. I've been following Joe's posts on another forum and I'm very interested to see the outcome, as I just bought a 2003 996 C2. It came with 13k miles on the odometer and a single previous owner (lease, which made me a little nervous). I have about 12 months and plenty of miles on the original warranty, so concerns like this will determine whether or not I keep it beyond the factory warranty or move on to something else.
FWIW, I had a 2002 M3 (bought new) that was covered under the 6 yr / 100k mile extended motor warranty. I never had any problems with it, but sold it after 1 year (7k miles) to finance a new home.
FWIW, I had a 2002 M3 (bought new) that was covered under the 6 yr / 100k mile extended motor warranty. I never had any problems with it, but sold it after 1 year (7k miles) to finance a new home.
01-03-2006, 03:04 AM
#69
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I should find out something tomorrow. I will let you guys know.
01-03-2006, 08:54 AM
#70
Three Wheelin'
Guys, it's simple: if the car is out of warranty (bumper-to-bumper, drivetrain, etc), we are out of luck. If Porsche offers to comp any portion of the service, then kudos to them. I recognize that this RMS issue seems rather prevalent from anecdotal evidence on this forum. However, it would be interesting to note the exact percentage of cars that suffer from an RMS issue and subsequently require a new engine. Part of the problem with drawing any conclusions from this forum is that most members are either guys looking for mods are guys looking to resolve their problems. There is a much larger percentage of 996 owners who do not ever track or mod their cars and 'may' rarely ever have problems. Only Porsche can know this data and clearly they are not sharing. Taking a service technician's anecdotal evidence from one dealer in one part of the country only adds fuel to the fire.
Is there a solution? No. Life itself is a crapshoot. I have driven all manner of cars and not one of them was ever perfect. If something breaks, fix it. I mean, heck, for 10k, you are getting a new engine AND another 2 years of warranty. Since a CPO typically prices out at 2500 from the dealer, 7500 ain't too bad for a REPLACEMENT Porsche motor. I mean, these cars do often cost as much as $100k or more! 10% of MSRP for a replacement engine for a car in which the engine is 90% of the excitement ain't too bad!
On an aside, I love the comparisons to 1.8L Honda motors. Go buy one if you love their efficiency and reliability. Sometimes, passion costs. Frankly, if you go by my relationship with my girlfriend, passion cost a lot!
ADDENDUM: I am not kidding....not five seconds ago just after submitting this post, one of my coworkers comes in and complains about her Toyota Avalon that just needed it's engine replaced after 30k miles. Pie in the sky, fellas, that engines from the Japanese last forever too. I guess we Porsche drivers just need to accept that sometimes things break...sometimes more than we would like.
Is there a solution? No. Life itself is a crapshoot. I have driven all manner of cars and not one of them was ever perfect. If something breaks, fix it. I mean, heck, for 10k, you are getting a new engine AND another 2 years of warranty. Since a CPO typically prices out at 2500 from the dealer, 7500 ain't too bad for a REPLACEMENT Porsche motor. I mean, these cars do often cost as much as $100k or more! 10% of MSRP for a replacement engine for a car in which the engine is 90% of the excitement ain't too bad!
On an aside, I love the comparisons to 1.8L Honda motors. Go buy one if you love their efficiency and reliability. Sometimes, passion costs. Frankly, if you go by my relationship with my girlfriend, passion cost a lot!
ADDENDUM: I am not kidding....not five seconds ago just after submitting this post, one of my coworkers comes in and complains about her Toyota Avalon that just needed it's engine replaced after 30k miles. Pie in the sky, fellas, that engines from the Japanese last forever too. I guess we Porsche drivers just need to accept that sometimes things break...sometimes more than we would like.
01-04-2006, 01:40 AM
#71
Rennlist Member
Darn JimB. Now your 2nd pic shows more cars in front of the red GT3. OK you finally hit the last nail in the coffin for me. What's next 15 more cars coming on 3rd pic? Why don't you just bury me upside down too? Wait a minute I sleep facing down. My bad. Great pics dude : ). Regards. MIke
01-04-2006, 10:39 AM
#72
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by 996FLT6
Darn JimB. Now your 2nd pic shows more cars in front of the red GT3. OK you finally hit the last nail in the coffin for me. What's next 15 more cars coming on 3rd pic? Why don't you just bury me upside down too? Wait a minute I sleep facing down. My bad. Great pics dude : ). Regards. MIke
Take a look at the cars in the picture. Next to me is a euro 964 cup car, behind me is a real euro 993 RSCS, next is a very fast, very modified RSA and finally a decked out 3.6L turbo. All driven by very good drivers. The GT3 was close to stock. Just some suspension stuff I think. It's pretty impressive that it's even in the picture. Like I said before, the GT3 is an amazing car. IMHO the best street car ever built by Porsche. Get off this board and go drive around.
Jim
01-05-2006, 12:01 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
Yeah Jim -weather in San Francisco has been kinda crappy so haven't taken her out yet and yes I'm bored and hovering around the best forum in the world : ). You know I was just joking right Jim: )? Regards. MIke
