PA/NJ Spring Fling?
#212
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Thanks Tony for bumping this for me!
For all those that PM'ed me, this is not a drill - Yes, the above note is real.
The weather is looking crappy for Sunday and shows no sign of change (much as I'd hoped that it would), so rather than risk having a miserable time on Sunday and half of you not showing up, we decided to change the event to Saturday - same place, same time.
I'm sorry that some of you cannot make it - I was looking forward to meeting you guys and I know that everyone has been excited about this for a while - more the reason that it was a hard call for us to make in changing the day.
I hope that we still see most of you there!
For all those that PM'ed me, this is not a drill - Yes, the above note is real.
The weather is looking crappy for Sunday and shows no sign of change (much as I'd hoped that it would), so rather than risk having a miserable time on Sunday and half of you not showing up, we decided to change the event to Saturday - same place, same time.
I'm sorry that some of you cannot make it - I was looking forward to meeting you guys and I know that everyone has been excited about this for a while - more the reason that it was a hard call for us to make in changing the day.
I hope that we still see most of you there!
#213
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Wellardmac
Thanks Tony for bumping this for me!
For all those that PM'ed me, this is not a drill - Yes, the above note is real.
The weather is looking crappy for Sunday and shows no sign of change (much as I'd hoped that it would), so rather than risk having a miserable time on Sunday and half of you not showing up, we decided to change the event to Saturday - same place, same time.
I'm sorry that some of you cannot make it - I was looking forward to meeting you guys and I know that everyone has been excited about this for a while - more the reason that it was a hard call for us to make in changing the day.
I hope that we still see most of you there!
For all those that PM'ed me, this is not a drill - Yes, the above note is real.
The weather is looking crappy for Sunday and shows no sign of change (much as I'd hoped that it would), so rather than risk having a miserable time on Sunday and half of you not showing up, we decided to change the event to Saturday - same place, same time.
I'm sorry that some of you cannot make it - I was looking forward to meeting you guys and I know that everyone has been excited about this for a while - more the reason that it was a hard call for us to make in changing the day.
I hope that we still see most of you there!
Changing a run, planned so well in advance, to a day earlier and doing it two days prior to the event itself, could leave a sour taste in some peoples' mouths. Especially those who had planned on attending from a distance.
Hell, if a week ago, someone mentioned an impromptu run for those who available and then pushed it up a day, no big deal but....perhaps it might have been better to push it back a week or two?
#214
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Dave Howerdel
There is one odd thing about this that I would like to bring up. Usually a need to cancel leads to a rescheduling at a later date not an earlier one, allowing people to adjust their schedule as needed. I've attended runs that were organized 2 weeks in advance and saw 50+ cars show up. I have no doubt this run, planned weeks prior would exceed those in size.
Changing a run, planned so well in advance, to a day earlier and doing it two days prior to the event itself, could leave a sour taste in some peoples' mouths. Especially those who had planned on attending from a distance.
Hell, if a week ago, someone mentioned an impromptu run for those who available and then pushed it up a day, no big deal but....perhaps it might have been better to push it back a week or two?
Changing a run, planned so well in advance, to a day earlier and doing it two days prior to the event itself, could leave a sour taste in some peoples' mouths. Especially those who had planned on attending from a distance.
Hell, if a week ago, someone mentioned an impromptu run for those who available and then pushed it up a day, no big deal but....perhaps it might have been better to push it back a week or two?
I apologize for the rescheduling, we really didn't want to do it, but the honest reality comes down to if we didn't do it this weekend, then my my schedule didn't allow it to happen at all for the next month, so it's a now or nothing deal. On top of that we had PCA insurance that was scheduled for this weekend. I was prepared to do this as rain or shine, but when the forecast started talking about high winds and torrential rain, then that just made the event unfeasible for Sunday... no point doing it if we all get soaked while signing in and can't spend time talking and enjoying the cars.
I hope that it doens't leave a bad taste in people's mouths, as I have put a lot of work in putting this together and I am as disappointed as you all the the weather for Sunday doesn't look like it's going to cooperate. My hope is that we can have a successful event this weekend that will justify me putting together another one or two events later this year. As I said, this has been a lot of work to pull together (on the part of many people, not just myself and my wife - SpiderV6, Tony356993, others from PCA), but I think that the result will make it worthwhile.
I know that you and others are disappointed in not being able to make it this weekend - we've all been looking forward to it for months, but I really hope that you can make the next one. I'm really unhappy about this also, but I recognise the downside of arranging an event during the fickle weather month of April. I'm thinking June and early November for the next ones... if people are still interested in attending.
Last edited by Wellardmac; 04-13-2007 at 12:01 AM.
#215
Drifting
Wellardmac,
no hard feelings here.
i totally understand the time and effort one spends on org. those GTG event. and it's tough to make a decision because the weather.
for the future reference, summer morning is better than spring time. it's still too cold to enjoy a morning run fully for cab guys.
no hard feelings here.
i totally understand the time and effort one spends on org. those GTG event. and it's tough to make a decision because the weather.
for the future reference, summer morning is better than spring time. it's still too cold to enjoy a morning run fully for cab guys.
#216
Three Wheelin'
No need for an apology as I understand the circumstances perfectly. I could have not have taken it upon myself to organize such a run since my schedule is often inflexible as well, hence why I can no longer attend. I know the effort that you and others have put into it since early Feb. and I just thought it a shame to have it have it possibly diminished a few days before.
Those that will be there on Sat., have a great time. Maybe we can get something together this summer using this run as a template.
Those that will be there on Sat., have a great time. Maybe we can get something together this summer using this run as a template.
#217
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: CURRENT: Audi TT / Audi A3
Posts: 1,219
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It's always helpful if the people who plan these events, and those of us who wish to attend them, are flexible.
Saturday happens to work for me, so I'll certainly be there. I'm lucky to be free on both days. Thanks to all of you who are responsible for putting on this event, and to those who can't make it on Saturday....I'm hoping that you can join us for the next one!
Saturday happens to work for me, so I'll certainly be there. I'm lucky to be free on both days. Thanks to all of you who are responsible for putting on this event, and to those who can't make it on Saturday....I'm hoping that you can join us for the next one!
#218
Three Wheelin'
I'm not kidding you guys: I'm glad you rescheduled it because I thought it was Saturday the entire time. I don't know how I got that in my head. Wait, I know...I'm oblivious sometimes. Again, I'll try to make the early drive from NYC tomorrow morning. Thanks for organizing.
#220
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Glad to hear that people are still going to show up for us tomorrow - I'm really looking forward to this.
I'm sorry that we lost some people. I feel pretty bad about that, but we will organize another for the summer if you tell me you want to do it.
I'm sorry that we lost some people. I feel pretty bad about that, but we will organize another for the summer if you tell me you want to do it.
#221
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,159
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Count me in. I'm really happy the date has been moved, as I'd much prefer to do this dry.
Wellardmac. I think you've done a sterling job preparing this, and we all know that you can't keep everyone happy all the time, so I'd like to thank you for the effort you've put it. It's really appreciated!
Cheers
Phil
'95 993 Coupe
(Stock)
Wellardmac. I think you've done a sterling job preparing this, and we all know that you can't keep everyone happy all the time, so I'd like to thank you for the effort you've put it. It's really appreciated!
Cheers
Phil
'95 993 Coupe
(Stock)
#223
Rennlist Member
There were some references to speeds in earlier posts on this thread. The article on sport bike riding on the street seems apposite to me. I commend it to you for the drive tomorrow, and the rest of your on-street driving as well.
Read it, Learn it, Live it!
THE PACE
BY NICK IENATSCH
.... Racing involves speed, concentration and commitment; the results of a mistake are usually catastrophic because there's little room for error riding at 100 percent. Performance street riding is less intense and further from the absolute limit, but because circumstances are less controlled, mistakes and over aggressiveness can be equally catastrophic. Plenty of roadracers have sworn off street riding. "Too dangerous, too many variables and too easy to get carried away with too much speed," track specialists claim. Adrenaline-addled racers find themselves treating the street like the track, and not surprisingly, they get burned by the police, the laws of physics and the cold, harsh realities of an environment not groomed for ten-tenths riding.
.... But as many of us know, a swift ride down a favorite road may be the finest way to spend a few free hours with a bike we love. And these few hours are best enjoyed riding at The Pace.
.... A year after I joined Motorcyclist staff in 1984, Mitch Boehm was hired. Six months later, The Pace came into being, and we perfected it during the next few months of road testing and weekend fun rides. Now The Pace is part of my life - and a part of the Sunday morning riding group I frequent. The Pace is a street riding technique that not only keeps street riders alive, but thoroughly entertained as well.
THE PACE
.... The Pace focuses on bike control and de-emphasizes outright speed. Full-throttle acceleration and last minute braking aren't part of the program, effectively eliminating the two most common single-bike accident scenarios in sport riding. Cornering momentum is the name of the game, stressing strong, forceful inputs at the handlebar to place the bike correctly at the entrance of the turn and get it flicked in with little wasted time and distance. Since the throttle wasn't slammed open at the exit of the last corner, the next corner doesn't require much, if any, braking. It isn't uncommon to ride with our group and not see a brake light flash all morning.
.... If the brakes are required, the front lever gets squeezed smoothly, quickly and with a good deal of force to set entrance speed in minimum time. Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road, a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long. Running The Pace decreases your reliance on the throttle and brakes, the two easiest controls to abuse, and hones your ability to judge cornering speed, which is the most thrilling aspect of performance street riding.
YOUR LANE IS YOUR LIMIT
.... Crossing the centerline at any time except during a passing maneuver is intolerable, another sign that you're pushing too hard to keep up. Even when you have a clean line of sight through a left-hand kink, stay to the right of the centerline. Staying on the right side of the centerline is much more challenging than simply straightening every slight corner, and when the whole group is committed to this intelligent practice, the temptation to cheat is eliminated through peer pressure and logic. Though street riding shouldn't be described in racing terms, you can think of your lane as the race track. Leaving your lane is tantamount to a crash.
.... Exact bike control has you using every inch of your lane if the circumstances permit it. In corners with a clear line of sight and no oncoming traffic, enter at the far outside of the corner, turn the bike relatively late in the corner to get a late apex at the far inside of your lane and accelerate out, just brushing the far outside of your lane as your bike stands up. Steer your bike forcefully but smoothly to minimize the transition time. Don't hammer it down because the chassis will bobble slightly as it settles, possibly carrying you off line. Since you haven't charged in on the brakes, you can get the throttle on early, before the apex, which balances and settles your bike for the drive out.
.... More often than not, circumstances do not permit the full use of your lane from yellow line to white line and back again. Blind corners, oncoming traffic and gravel on the road are a few criteria that dictate a more conservative approach, so leave yourself a three or four foot margin for error, especially at the left side of the lane where errant oncoming traffic could prove fatal. Simply narrow your entrance on a blind right-harder and move your apex into your lane three feet on blind left turns in order to stay free of unseen oncoming traffic hogging the centerline. Because you're running at The Pace and not flat out, your controlled entrances offer additional time to deal with unexpected gravel or other debris in your lane; the outside wheel track is usually the cleanest through a dirty corner since a car weights its outside tires most, scrubbing more dirt off the pavement in the process, so aim for that line.
A GOOD LEADER, WILLING FOLLOWERS
.... The street is not a racing environment, and it takes humility, self assurance and self control to keep it that way. The leader sets the pace and monitors his mirrors for signs of raggedness in the ranks that follow, such as tucking in on straights, crossing over the yellow line and hanging off the motorcycle in the corners, If the leader pulls away, he simply slows his straight way speed slightly but continues to enjoy the corners, thus closing the ranks but missing none of the fun. The small group of three or four riders I ride with is so harmonious that the pace is identical no matter who's leading. The lead shifts occasionally with a quick hand sign, but there's never a pass for the lead with an ego on the sleeve. Make no mistake, the riding is spirited and quick in the corners. Anyone with a right arm can hammer down the straights; it's proficiency in the corners that makes The Pace come alive.
.... Following distances are relatively lengthy, with the straightaways taken at more moderate speeds, providing the perfect opportunity to adjust the gaps. Keeping a good distance serves several purposes, besides being safer. Rock chips are minimized, and the police or highway patrol won't suspect a race is in progress. The Pace's style of not hanging off in corners also reduces the appearance of pushing too hard and adds a degree of maturity and sensibility in the eyes of the public and the law. There's a definite challenge to cornering quickly while sitting sedately on your bike.
.... New rider indoctrination takes some time because The Pace develops very high cornering speeds and newcomers want to hammer the throttle on the exits to make up for what they lose at the entrances. Our group slows drastically when a new rider joins the ranks because our technique of moderate straightaway speed and no brakes can suck the unaware into a corner too fast, creating the most common single bike accident. With a new rider learning The Pace behind you, tap your brake lightly well before the turn to alert him and make sure he understands there's no pressure to stay with the group.
.... There's plenty of ongoing communication during The Pace. A foot off the peg indicates debris in the road, and all slowing or turning intentions are signaled in advance with the left hand and arm. Turn signals are used for direction changes and passing, with a wave of the left hand to thank the cars that move right and make it easy for motorcyclists to get past. Since you don't have a death grip on the handlebar, your left hand is also free to wave to oncoming riders, a fading courtesy that we'd like to see return. If you're getting the idea The Pace is a relaxing, noncompetitive way to ride with a group, you are right.
RELAX AND FLICK IT
.... I'd rather spend a Sunday in the mountains riding at The Pace than a Sunday at the racetrack, it's that enjoyable. Countersteering is the name of the game; smooth, forceful steering input at the handlebar relayed to the tires' contact patches through a rigid sport bike frame. Riding at The Pace is certainly what bike manufacturers had in mind when sport bikes evolved to the street.
.... But the machine isn't the most important aspect of running The Pace because you can do it on anything capable of getting through a corner. Attitude is The Pace's most important aspect: realizing the friend ahead of you isn't a competitor, respecting his right to lead the group occasionally and giving him credit for his riding skills. You must have the maturity to limit your straightaway speeds to allow the group to stay in touch and the sense to realize that racetrack tactics such as late braking and full throttle runs to redline will alienate the public and police and possibly introduce you to the unforgiving laws of gravity. When the group arrives at the destination after running The Pace, no one feels outgunned or is left with the feeling he must prove himself on the return run. If you've got some thing to prove, get on a racetrack.
.... The racetrack measures your speed with a stop watch and direct competition, welcoming your aggression and gritty resolve to be the best. Performance street riding's only yardstick is the amount of enjoyment gained, not lap times, finishing position or competitors beaten. The differences are huge but not always remembered by riders who haven't discovered The Pace's cornering pureness and group involvement. Hammer on the racetrack. Pace yourself on the street.
© Copyright MOTORCYCLIST Magazine
November 1991 issue
Read it, Learn it, Live it!
THE PACE
BY NICK IENATSCH
.... Racing involves speed, concentration and commitment; the results of a mistake are usually catastrophic because there's little room for error riding at 100 percent. Performance street riding is less intense and further from the absolute limit, but because circumstances are less controlled, mistakes and over aggressiveness can be equally catastrophic. Plenty of roadracers have sworn off street riding. "Too dangerous, too many variables and too easy to get carried away with too much speed," track specialists claim. Adrenaline-addled racers find themselves treating the street like the track, and not surprisingly, they get burned by the police, the laws of physics and the cold, harsh realities of an environment not groomed for ten-tenths riding.
.... But as many of us know, a swift ride down a favorite road may be the finest way to spend a few free hours with a bike we love. And these few hours are best enjoyed riding at The Pace.
.... A year after I joined Motorcyclist staff in 1984, Mitch Boehm was hired. Six months later, The Pace came into being, and we perfected it during the next few months of road testing and weekend fun rides. Now The Pace is part of my life - and a part of the Sunday morning riding group I frequent. The Pace is a street riding technique that not only keeps street riders alive, but thoroughly entertained as well.
THE PACE
.... The Pace focuses on bike control and de-emphasizes outright speed. Full-throttle acceleration and last minute braking aren't part of the program, effectively eliminating the two most common single-bike accident scenarios in sport riding. Cornering momentum is the name of the game, stressing strong, forceful inputs at the handlebar to place the bike correctly at the entrance of the turn and get it flicked in with little wasted time and distance. Since the throttle wasn't slammed open at the exit of the last corner, the next corner doesn't require much, if any, braking. It isn't uncommon to ride with our group and not see a brake light flash all morning.
.... If the brakes are required, the front lever gets squeezed smoothly, quickly and with a good deal of force to set entrance speed in minimum time. Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road, a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long. Running The Pace decreases your reliance on the throttle and brakes, the two easiest controls to abuse, and hones your ability to judge cornering speed, which is the most thrilling aspect of performance street riding.
YOUR LANE IS YOUR LIMIT
.... Crossing the centerline at any time except during a passing maneuver is intolerable, another sign that you're pushing too hard to keep up. Even when you have a clean line of sight through a left-hand kink, stay to the right of the centerline. Staying on the right side of the centerline is much more challenging than simply straightening every slight corner, and when the whole group is committed to this intelligent practice, the temptation to cheat is eliminated through peer pressure and logic. Though street riding shouldn't be described in racing terms, you can think of your lane as the race track. Leaving your lane is tantamount to a crash.
.... Exact bike control has you using every inch of your lane if the circumstances permit it. In corners with a clear line of sight and no oncoming traffic, enter at the far outside of the corner, turn the bike relatively late in the corner to get a late apex at the far inside of your lane and accelerate out, just brushing the far outside of your lane as your bike stands up. Steer your bike forcefully but smoothly to minimize the transition time. Don't hammer it down because the chassis will bobble slightly as it settles, possibly carrying you off line. Since you haven't charged in on the brakes, you can get the throttle on early, before the apex, which balances and settles your bike for the drive out.
.... More often than not, circumstances do not permit the full use of your lane from yellow line to white line and back again. Blind corners, oncoming traffic and gravel on the road are a few criteria that dictate a more conservative approach, so leave yourself a three or four foot margin for error, especially at the left side of the lane where errant oncoming traffic could prove fatal. Simply narrow your entrance on a blind right-harder and move your apex into your lane three feet on blind left turns in order to stay free of unseen oncoming traffic hogging the centerline. Because you're running at The Pace and not flat out, your controlled entrances offer additional time to deal with unexpected gravel or other debris in your lane; the outside wheel track is usually the cleanest through a dirty corner since a car weights its outside tires most, scrubbing more dirt off the pavement in the process, so aim for that line.
A GOOD LEADER, WILLING FOLLOWERS
.... The street is not a racing environment, and it takes humility, self assurance and self control to keep it that way. The leader sets the pace and monitors his mirrors for signs of raggedness in the ranks that follow, such as tucking in on straights, crossing over the yellow line and hanging off the motorcycle in the corners, If the leader pulls away, he simply slows his straight way speed slightly but continues to enjoy the corners, thus closing the ranks but missing none of the fun. The small group of three or four riders I ride with is so harmonious that the pace is identical no matter who's leading. The lead shifts occasionally with a quick hand sign, but there's never a pass for the lead with an ego on the sleeve. Make no mistake, the riding is spirited and quick in the corners. Anyone with a right arm can hammer down the straights; it's proficiency in the corners that makes The Pace come alive.
.... Following distances are relatively lengthy, with the straightaways taken at more moderate speeds, providing the perfect opportunity to adjust the gaps. Keeping a good distance serves several purposes, besides being safer. Rock chips are minimized, and the police or highway patrol won't suspect a race is in progress. The Pace's style of not hanging off in corners also reduces the appearance of pushing too hard and adds a degree of maturity and sensibility in the eyes of the public and the law. There's a definite challenge to cornering quickly while sitting sedately on your bike.
.... New rider indoctrination takes some time because The Pace develops very high cornering speeds and newcomers want to hammer the throttle on the exits to make up for what they lose at the entrances. Our group slows drastically when a new rider joins the ranks because our technique of moderate straightaway speed and no brakes can suck the unaware into a corner too fast, creating the most common single bike accident. With a new rider learning The Pace behind you, tap your brake lightly well before the turn to alert him and make sure he understands there's no pressure to stay with the group.
.... There's plenty of ongoing communication during The Pace. A foot off the peg indicates debris in the road, and all slowing or turning intentions are signaled in advance with the left hand and arm. Turn signals are used for direction changes and passing, with a wave of the left hand to thank the cars that move right and make it easy for motorcyclists to get past. Since you don't have a death grip on the handlebar, your left hand is also free to wave to oncoming riders, a fading courtesy that we'd like to see return. If you're getting the idea The Pace is a relaxing, noncompetitive way to ride with a group, you are right.
RELAX AND FLICK IT
.... I'd rather spend a Sunday in the mountains riding at The Pace than a Sunday at the racetrack, it's that enjoyable. Countersteering is the name of the game; smooth, forceful steering input at the handlebar relayed to the tires' contact patches through a rigid sport bike frame. Riding at The Pace is certainly what bike manufacturers had in mind when sport bikes evolved to the street.
.... But the machine isn't the most important aspect of running The Pace because you can do it on anything capable of getting through a corner. Attitude is The Pace's most important aspect: realizing the friend ahead of you isn't a competitor, respecting his right to lead the group occasionally and giving him credit for his riding skills. You must have the maturity to limit your straightaway speeds to allow the group to stay in touch and the sense to realize that racetrack tactics such as late braking and full throttle runs to redline will alienate the public and police and possibly introduce you to the unforgiving laws of gravity. When the group arrives at the destination after running The Pace, no one feels outgunned or is left with the feeling he must prove himself on the return run. If you've got some thing to prove, get on a racetrack.
.... The racetrack measures your speed with a stop watch and direct competition, welcoming your aggression and gritty resolve to be the best. Performance street riding's only yardstick is the amount of enjoyment gained, not lap times, finishing position or competitors beaten. The differences are huge but not always remembered by riders who haven't discovered The Pace's cornering pureness and group involvement. Hammer on the racetrack. Pace yourself on the street.
© Copyright MOTORCYCLIST Magazine
November 1991 issue
#224
Well after a little finagling with my wife, I am still able to attend the rally on Saturday! I'm extremely anxious as I just got my Cayman S two weeks ago and have had virtually zero chances of driving it. I travel on business extensively and was really looking forward to the drive on Sunday and felt bad all week as the weather forecast emerged. Now with the change to Saturday and the blessing from my wife, I fully anticipate arriving in Lambertville tomorrow bright and early. See you all then!
#225
Question: I'm coming up 95N from Philly. Am I better off going up 32 to New Hope and then crossing the bridge in to Lambertville or going up 29 to Lambertville. Streets & Trips reports that there is construction on 29 between 546 and Valley Road.