Your .02 || PSS10s vs. X73 (C4S)
01-26-2009, 12:42 PM
#1
Drifting
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Your .02 || PSS10s vs. X73 (C4S)
I’ve done some Searching and these are the two setups I am considering.
The biggest ‘Pro’ for the X73 is that it is a factory engineered solution. I really like going the ‘factory’ route if its available; it feels ‘safe’.
The biggest ‘Pro’ for the PSS10 setup is that it is height and damper adjustable. Almost all of the time, I’ll be driving on the street, and every once in a while, the wife rides in the C4S, so being able to reach down and tune to the ride to wife-friendly is a hugeplus.
The X73 is ~$425 more expensive not a huge factor, but worth mentioning.
Both have warranties.
I need to try to ride in each to get an idea; maybe this weekend.
So, I think I’ve made my decision, but want the opinions of others in case I failed to consider anything unusual. Which would you choose, and why?
The biggest ‘Pro’ for the X73 is that it is a factory engineered solution. I really like going the ‘factory’ route if its available; it feels ‘safe’.
The biggest ‘Pro’ for the PSS10 setup is that it is height and damper adjustable. Almost all of the time, I’ll be driving on the street, and every once in a while, the wife rides in the C4S, so being able to reach down and tune to the ride to wife-friendly is a hugeplus.
The X73 is ~$425 more expensive not a huge factor, but worth mentioning.
Both have warranties.
I need to try to ride in each to get an idea; maybe this weekend.
So, I think I’ve made my decision, but want the opinions of others in case I failed to consider anything unusual. Which would you choose, and why?
01-26-2009, 05:41 PM
#3
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‘Wong’ is too strong of a word. It’s a US spec suspension that does a really good job, but I’d like something lower, more authentic I guess. I also like the adjustability factor. US spec Sport Suspension looks pretty damn good as-is, but with just a little tweaking, it can look exponentially better IMO. See AreenA’s fine example; remember this thread? I mean, damn
01-26-2009, 05:59 PM
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‘Wong’ is too strong of a word. It’s a US spec suspension that does a really good job, but I’d like something lower, more authentic I guess. I also like the adjustability factor. US spec Sport Suspension looks pretty damn good as-is, but with just a little tweaking, it can look exponentially better IMO. See AreenA’s fine example; remember this thread? I mean, damn
01-26-2009, 06:36 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
I've got PSS10 on my '02 C4S and really like it. I track the car about 2 days/month and made the switch primarily for track driving. The ability to increase the camber up front makes a huge difference on the turn-in. Don't think I'd have made the change for street driving only.
01-27-2009, 12:03 AM
#7
x73.
I read an article from a dude that worked on nascar suspensions and he had access to a shock dyno. Of interesting note he found many popular adjustable shocks to be inconsistently valved, meaning a 3 setting on one shock could be a 5 on the other side. One of the systems he tested on the shock dyno was the pss9. Tein adjustables? Crap.
Short of high dollar adjustables he liked the koni adjustables and the bilstein heavy duty or sports. I wish I still had the link to this article.
I read an article from a dude that worked on nascar suspensions and he had access to a shock dyno. Of interesting note he found many popular adjustable shocks to be inconsistently valved, meaning a 3 setting on one shock could be a 5 on the other side. One of the systems he tested on the shock dyno was the pss9. Tein adjustables? Crap.
Short of high dollar adjustables he liked the koni adjustables and the bilstein heavy duty or sports. I wish I still had the link to this article.
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01-27-2009, 12:24 AM
#8
For me, I regret the PSS9's... the spring rates are too soft. I have it constantly at 4 up front and 1 to the rear (firmest) since anything above those settings, the car feels like a damned wobbly boat.
I wish I'd have gone with the x73...
It all depends on how you like it and how you drive it.
I wish I'd have gone with the x73...
It all depends on how you like it and how you drive it.
01-27-2009, 01:04 AM
#9
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01-27-2009, 09:37 AM
#11
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I went with the PSS9 set-up last spring, along with some X74 sways I picked up from a fellow Rennlister. I don't track my car, but I can tell you that the handling on the street is night and day from stock.
I had my Indy set-up the suspension (height and settings at 3/5) and I don't see changing these.
Surprising to me, while I find the ride firmer, the new set-up absorbs bumps much more smoothly. So imo, it is a better all around ride ... firmer, much better handling, smoother and no more 4x4 look.
I can't comment on the full X74 set-up, but there are a number of threads on this, here and on 6speed.
I had my Indy set-up the suspension (height and settings at 3/5) and I don't see changing these.
Surprising to me, while I find the ride firmer, the new set-up absorbs bumps much more smoothly. So imo, it is a better all around ride ... firmer, much better handling, smoother and no more 4x4 look.
I can't comment on the full X74 set-up, but there are a number of threads on this, here and on 6speed.
01-27-2009, 10:26 AM
#12
I found the article I was referring to.
Some nuggets to get your mouth watering:
And, last, but not least:
Your mileage and experience may vary, but when it's time for me to upgrade suspension, it's X73 or Bilstein Sport/HD shocks.
///Michael
One more nugget regarding Koni Yellows, which the author says is decent:
Some nuggets to get your mouth watering:
Let me make this as clear as I possibly can: THE ADJUSTERS ON YOUR SHOCKS ALMOST CERTAINLY DO NOT DO WHAT YOU THINK THEY DO. Unless you have something high-end, like a Penske, and you've taken the time to clock the adjuster window on the shock dyno, the ***** on your shocks cannot be trusted to work. Most shocks of the same model DO NOT match each other on the same adjuster setting, and each click DOES NOT make the same change in force. Most shocks make very large changes per click near the "full hard" setting and make very little to no change near the "full soft" setting.
Remember this list:
Bilstein
Penske
Koni
Ohlins
Sachs
Dynamic Suspension
Not on this list? Almost certainly crap.
Perhaps I should elaborate a little.
For a while, I was the shock engineer for a race team, and was designing, building, and rebuilding shock packages for customers. A big part of this service was running customer shocks on the dyno to set a baseline for where they were currently at. I dynoed a couple of hundred shocks, representing the spread of almost every shock brand extant.
Bilstein
Penske
Koni
Ohlins
Sachs
Dynamic Suspension
Not on this list? Almost certainly crap.
Perhaps I should elaborate a little.
For a while, I was the shock engineer for a race team, and was designing, building, and rebuilding shock packages for customers. A big part of this service was running customer shocks on the dyno to set a baseline for where they were currently at. I dynoed a couple of hundred shocks, representing the spread of almost every shock brand extant.
Bilstein makes amazing shocks - they are mechanically simple, parts are dirt cheap and readily availible, and the innards of their street shocks and their full-race shocks are identical. Crack open a Bilstien street shock, and inside are the same parts as inside their NASCAR shocks. That means that there is a simple conversion process (involving welding a boss onto the shock body to fit a Shraeder valve into the gas chamber) to turn an off-the-shelf street Bilstein into a full-race, user-servicable, user-revalveable NASCAR Bilstein.
...
There is only one small problem with Bilsteins: no *****.
Bilstein does not really make adjustable shocks. They have a rebound adjuster (and they use it on the PSS9 series shocks) but it is really crappy and hard to tune - to the point of worthlessness. It's an on-off switch for the most part. That turns out to not really be a problem for those inclined to tune shocks by revalving, but the average customer wants a **** to fiddle with and so Bilsteins wound up being a hard sell. Those that bought them were universally ecstatic with their performance, but it was tough work getting anyone to buy them when they could buy a shiny quadruple-adjustable from some no-name brand.
...
There is only one small problem with Bilsteins: no *****.
Bilstein does not really make adjustable shocks. They have a rebound adjuster (and they use it on the PSS9 series shocks) but it is really crappy and hard to tune - to the point of worthlessness. It's an on-off switch for the most part. That turns out to not really be a problem for those inclined to tune shocks by revalving, but the average customer wants a **** to fiddle with and so Bilsteins wound up being a hard sell. Those that bought them were universally ecstatic with their performance, but it was tough work getting anyone to buy them when they could buy a shiny quadruple-adjustable from some no-name brand.
///Michael
One more nugget regarding Koni Yellows, which the author says is decent:
Koni's quality control on the Yellows is such that the odds on any two shocks with the same part number matching forces are very small - there's quite a bit of shock-to-shock variation. But bought as a group buy and then dyno matched, it is possible to put together matched sets. Be aware that I've seen Koni Yellows with the same part number that matched perfectly when one was 1/2 turn off full hard, and the other was at full soft - I consider the adjuster **** a way to match shocks on the dyno, NOT a tuning tool.
Last edited by Michael-Dallas; 01-27-2009 at 10:44 AM.
01-27-2009, 10:42 AM
#13
Maybe this summer I'll change to X73 and just eat up the difference.
BTW, I have my pss9's fully corner balanced to my weight also.
01-27-2009, 10:58 AM
#14
Drifting
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I found the article I was referring to....
01-27-2009, 11:06 AM
#15
Although it wasn't was I was hoping to hear, thanks for posting that; another data point to consider. Bilstein is even one of his sponsors
I consider the adjuster **** a way to match shocks on the dyno, NOT a tuning tool.
///Michael