In the market for a 02 or 03 C4 or C4s
10-03-2009, 01:04 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
In the market for a 02 or 03 C4 or C4s
Hi,
Well I hit 40 and I realized that it's time for a P Car.
Currently drive a BMW 530xi as a daily and am in the mood to have a daily driver that will take me all seasons. Live in NE so would prefer a C4 or C4S.
So some questions for you good folks:
1. Pricing appears all over the map. What should I be paying for a C4 and a C4S respectively with around 50K-60K miles that's an 02 or 03?
2. Should I be worried about making sure it comes with some sort of extended warranty?
3. What are the top 3 things I should check to make sure they've been replaced/addressed on the service history?
Thanks and hope to contribute to this forum soon as a 996 driver.
Well I hit 40 and I realized that it's time for a P Car.
Currently drive a BMW 530xi as a daily and am in the mood to have a daily driver that will take me all seasons. Live in NE so would prefer a C4 or C4S.
So some questions for you good folks:
1. Pricing appears all over the map. What should I be paying for a C4 and a C4S respectively with around 50K-60K miles that's an 02 or 03?
2. Should I be worried about making sure it comes with some sort of extended warranty?
3. What are the top 3 things I should check to make sure they've been replaced/addressed on the service history?
Thanks and hope to contribute to this forum soon as a 996 driver.
10-03-2009, 05:24 PM
#2
Race Director
Hi,
Well I hit 40 and I realized that it's time for a P Car.
Currently drive a BMW 530xi as a daily and am in the mood to have a daily driver that will take me all seasons. Live in NE so would prefer a C4 or C4S.
So some questions for you good folks:
1. Pricing appears all over the map. What should I be paying for a C4 and a C4S respectively with around 50K-60K miles that's an 02 or 03?
2. Should I be worried about making sure it comes with some sort of extended warranty?
3. What are the top 3 things I should check to make sure they've been replaced/addressed on the service history?
Thanks and hope to contribute to this forum soon as a 996 driver.
Well I hit 40 and I realized that it's time for a P Car.
Currently drive a BMW 530xi as a daily and am in the mood to have a daily driver that will take me all seasons. Live in NE so would prefer a C4 or C4S.
So some questions for you good folks:
1. Pricing appears all over the map. What should I be paying for a C4 and a C4S respectively with around 50K-60K miles that's an 02 or 03?
2. Should I be worried about making sure it comes with some sort of extended warranty?
3. What are the top 3 things I should check to make sure they've been replaced/addressed on the service history?
Thanks and hope to contribute to this forum soon as a 996 driver.
Briefly, the car depreciates 10% from dealer's cost the minute the car is driven off the dealer's lot.
Then every year after -- when the new models arrive (early fall usually) -- another 10%.
Do the math and you'll arrive at a depreciated value of the car. Is this system perfect? Of course not.
Market demand, or lack of it (read economy), and so on play a role. But it is a start.
Do a search on www.autotrader.com for the model year and style of car you want. Search any distance from your location. This at least gives you an idea of what the asking prices are.
Use www.kbb.com and www.nada.com to get prices on the car you're interested in. There are fans and opponents of these sites but their prices are just another data point into your work to arrive at a value or price range.
What I try to do is find some source of pricing data that justifys a -- usually -- lower price than sellers are asking. (As a seller I try to do the opposite.)
If you can find a car offered with a CPO warranty -- one that was applied to the car in 2008 -- this is good. The more recent CPO warranty is better than the previous version. Covers more stuff.
My info is it is possible to CPO warranty a car -- with new warranty -- for 8 years and 100K miles after car put into service and its warranty clock started running. (My 03 Turbo came with a 2 year 100K warranty which takes the car out to 2011 (June) and of course 100K miles. Car had around 9500 miles when I bought it.)
An after market warranty is of less value and franky I'd assign an aftermarket warranty no value at all.
If rear main seal replaced and intermediate shaft o-ring and bolt upgrade applied that's a plus. If either show signs of leaking that's a negative. I'd insist both be taken care of before I bought. One thing that should be done is when the RMS replaced the crankshaft position be checked to ensure the crank's not out of position. If it is the RMS will never seal for long and the engine will suffer failure at some point not too far in the distant future.
RMS and IMS o-ring and bolt upgrades can result in a leak free engine. My 02 Boxster has been oil leak free since mid-2002 when I had both RMS/IMS done and I have put nearly 200K miles on the car/engine since then.
What you'd like to see are regular services, yearly at least. These include oil/filter changes, brake fluid flushes, even at least one coolant drain and refill. A tranny/diff lube service would be nice to see as well. If private seller some receipts showing the owner had the "little" things taken care of which is a good sign the car received TLC and better than exceptional care.
Avoid any car with mods, even if put back stock, and any car with signs of bad body or paint repairs. Avoid any car with track time.
Basically a used Porsche is just a used car and needs to be inspected, gone over, checked out just like any other used car prior to making an offer for the car.
Be sure for what it's worth a CarFax report turns up nothing negative but don't treat a clean CarFax report as the only proof you need the car's got a clean history.
Arrange to have car thoroughly inspected by a qualified and experienced tech prior to buying the car. This PPI should be the last thing done before you make an offer to buy the car. Now if PPI finds something like the brakes are due to be replaced -- due to normal wear/tear -- get estimate for the cost of this work and factor this into your offer. Do not pay top dollar for a car only to have to spend money to put into top dollar condition.
Remember in your negotiations price is not a fact, only an opinion.
Last but not least do not be afraid to walk away from a car about which you have any doubts or unanswered questions.
There is always another car.
Happy shopping.
Sincerely,
Macster.
10-03-2009, 06:31 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Macster - wow thank you for your detailed reply.
Excellent stuff. Now regarding a PPI - what's the best strategy there? How do I find a local PPI person (the car I found has had both RMS and IMS done and looks like it's in good condition - and is located in NJ).
Do I ask the seller to take it to a local Porsche dealer and I pay the PPI? Do I find an independent mechanic - and if so how do I find the right one?
Sorry for some newbie questions - this will be my first bold attempt at actually buying pre-owned....so a little green at this.
Excellent stuff. Now regarding a PPI - what's the best strategy there? How do I find a local PPI person (the car I found has had both RMS and IMS done and looks like it's in good condition - and is located in NJ).
Do I ask the seller to take it to a local Porsche dealer and I pay the PPI? Do I find an independent mechanic - and if so how do I find the right one?
Sorry for some newbie questions - this will be my first bold attempt at actually buying pre-owned....so a little green at this.
10-03-2009, 06:32 PM
#4
Instructor
Roadsessioin:
I agree with most of what Macster said, i do demur on this comment: "Avoid any car with track time."
there is an upside to track time. before one goes to a track (Drivers' Education Event), the car has to be inspected. This frequent independant inspection catches many maintence items before they become seriouis. For example, the hydralyic fluid gets changed once a year, and bleed generously before every event. It doesnt stay in there for years. Brake pads are changed at 40% wear and not down to the nubs, with scoring of the rotors. tires are not allowed to wear unevenly so wheel aligment is frequent and accurate. and the list goes on.
Of course, if the car is run every weekend for years, it will begin to show some premature wear.
just my $0.02
roy
I agree with most of what Macster said, i do demur on this comment: "Avoid any car with track time."
there is an upside to track time. before one goes to a track (Drivers' Education Event), the car has to be inspected. This frequent independant inspection catches many maintence items before they become seriouis. For example, the hydralyic fluid gets changed once a year, and bleed generously before every event. It doesnt stay in there for years. Brake pads are changed at 40% wear and not down to the nubs, with scoring of the rotors. tires are not allowed to wear unevenly so wheel aligment is frequent and accurate. and the list goes on.
Of course, if the car is run every weekend for years, it will begin to show some premature wear.
just my $0.02
roy
10-03-2009, 10:20 PM
#5
The Porsche CPO is a reliable warranty. Volkswagen... er, I mean PCNA is not about to go bust, but you will pay slightly more for a car from a Porsche dealer. That being said there are many good 3rd party warranty companies which are underwritten by stable, rated insurance companies that equally reliable. I have Warranty Direct and they are excellent. 3rd party warranties also do not limit you to the Porsche dealers for service. Of course there are sh!tty warranty companies out there, so caveat emptor. One way to buy a privately sold car and obtain a 3rd party warranty and be able to sleep at night is to buy one from the Porsche dealer who will be servicing your car. Most just require a mechanical inspection ($200-300) which is the same as a pre-purchase inspection (PPI).
996 major services are at 30K, 60K and 90K. Oil changes are every 15K/1year. Air filter changes are every 30K. Spark plugs every 30K. Poly rib belt every 60K. Transmission fluid (and FWD fluid) every 90K. Brake fluid every 2 years. Coolant is lifetime or whenever the coolant tank cracks (which it probably will at some point before 100K).
If you get the PPI done by a Porsche dealer, they can run the VIN and tell you about it's warranty history and what the original factory options were. The buyer arranges the PPI and pays for it. The seller just drops the car off.
IMHO there is nothing wrong with car with track time if it has been well maintained and passes PPI. Those cars have been tested and passed. The car to beware of is the garage queen with so few miles that any problems remain latent.
10-04-2009, 12:13 AM
#6
Weathergirl
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
New clutch. RMS has been updated. Recent brakes. Suspension in good condition. Evidence of gearbox and diff fluid changes. Tires, etc. (that's $1k+ right there).
10-05-2009, 02:07 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Happy birthday. The "mid-life crisis 911 purchase" - been there, done that.
The Porsche CPO is a reliable warranty. Volkswagen... er, I mean PCNA is not about to go bust, but you will pay slightly more for a car from a Porsche dealer. That being said there are many good 3rd party warranty companies which are underwritten by stable, rated insurance companies that equally reliable. I have Warranty Direct and they are excellent. 3rd party warranties also do not limit you to the Porsche dealers for service. Of course there are sh!tty warranty companies out there, so caveat emptor. One way to buy a privately sold car and obtain a 3rd party warranty and be able to sleep at night is to buy one from the Porsche dealer who will be servicing your car. Most just require a mechanical inspection ($200-300) which is the same as a pre-purchase inspection (PPI).
996 major services are at 30K, 60K and 90K. Oil changes are every 15K/1year. Air filter changes are every 30K. Spark plugs every 30K. Poly rib belt every 60K. Transmission fluid (and FWD fluid) every 90K. Brake fluid every 2 years. Coolant is lifetime or whenever the coolant tank cracks (which it probably will at some point before 100K).
If you get the PPI done by a Porsche dealer, they can run the VIN and tell you about it's warranty history and what the original factory options were. The buyer arranges the PPI and pays for it. The seller just drops the car off.
IMHO there is nothing wrong with car with track time if it has been well maintained and passes PPI. Those cars have been tested and passed. The car to beware of is the garage queen with so few miles that any problems remain latent.
The Porsche CPO is a reliable warranty. Volkswagen... er, I mean PCNA is not about to go bust, but you will pay slightly more for a car from a Porsche dealer. That being said there are many good 3rd party warranty companies which are underwritten by stable, rated insurance companies that equally reliable. I have Warranty Direct and they are excellent. 3rd party warranties also do not limit you to the Porsche dealers for service. Of course there are sh!tty warranty companies out there, so caveat emptor. One way to buy a privately sold car and obtain a 3rd party warranty and be able to sleep at night is to buy one from the Porsche dealer who will be servicing your car. Most just require a mechanical inspection ($200-300) which is the same as a pre-purchase inspection (PPI).
996 major services are at 30K, 60K and 90K. Oil changes are every 15K/1year. Air filter changes are every 30K. Spark plugs every 30K. Poly rib belt every 60K. Transmission fluid (and FWD fluid) every 90K. Brake fluid every 2 years. Coolant is lifetime or whenever the coolant tank cracks (which it probably will at some point before 100K).
If you get the PPI done by a Porsche dealer, they can run the VIN and tell you about it's warranty history and what the original factory options were. The buyer arranges the PPI and pays for it. The seller just drops the car off.
IMHO there is nothing wrong with car with track time if it has been well maintained and passes PPI. Those cars have been tested and passed. The car to beware of is the garage queen with so few miles that any problems remain latent.
Thanks - you're right about the garage queen thing. BTW looks like you have 2003 Coupe - why the switch? Now that you own both is one better than the other?
Trending Topics
10-05-2009, 09:43 PM
#8
After I got the cab, I went to Skip Barber and then a few autocrosses and DEs. Then I was hooked. I wanted to mod the car for better performance but it didn't make sense to me to put performance parts on an AWD cabrio which which carries more weight and is less stiff than a coupe. Hence the switch. Also, I can put 2 kids in the back of a coupe but I couldn't in my cab because of the roll bar.
I haven't autocrossed or tracked the coupe yet but, on the street they are, of course, remarkably similar. The coupe feels a little bit quicker because of the lesser weight. The coupe body doesn't flex as much and there are fewer rattles. But then again they are completely different cars because the coupe has the X74 sport suspension which is really low and stiff compared to the stock cabrio. The coupe has PSE which sounds like a symphony from idle to WOT compared to the asthmatic flatulence of the stock exhaust. On a sunny day or on a moonlit night, nothing compares to cruising around in the cabrio with the top down and the world provides your soundtrack.
Neither is better, they just excel in different areas. There, have I made your decision harder?
10-05-2009, 10:11 PM
#9
Macster - wow thank you for your detailed reply.
Excellent stuff. Now regarding a PPI - what's the best strategy there? How do I find a local PPI person (the car I found has had both RMS and IMS done and looks like it's in good condition - and is located in NJ).
Do I ask the seller to take it to a local Porsche dealer and I pay the PPI? Do I find an independent mechanic - and if so how do I find the right one?
Sorry for some newbie questions - this will be my first bold attempt at actually buying pre-owned....so a little green at this.
Excellent stuff. Now regarding a PPI - what's the best strategy there? How do I find a local PPI person (the car I found has had both RMS and IMS done and looks like it's in good condition - and is located in NJ).
Do I ask the seller to take it to a local Porsche dealer and I pay the PPI? Do I find an independent mechanic - and if so how do I find the right one?
Sorry for some newbie questions - this will be my first bold attempt at actually buying pre-owned....so a little green at this.
what part of NJ... maybe I can check it out for you if its close enough.
10-06-2009, 12:35 AM
#10
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
When I bought the cabrio I wanted that open top wind in your hair feeling. I also wanted AWD for snow/ice. I had no idea what DE or autocross was.
After I got the cab, I went to Skip Barber and then a few autocrosses and DEs. Then I was hooked. I wanted to mod the car for better performance but it didn't make sense to me to put performance parts on an AWD cabrio which which carries more weight and is less stiff than a coupe. Hence the switch. Also, I can put 2 kids in the back of a coupe but I couldn't in my cab because of the roll bar.
I haven't autocrossed or tracked the coupe yet but, on the street they are, of course, remarkably similar. The coupe feels a little bit quicker because of the lesser weight. The coupe body doesn't flex as much and there are fewer rattles. But then again they are completely different cars because the coupe has the X74 sport suspension which is really low and stiff compared to the stock cabrio. The coupe has PSE which sounds like a symphony from idle to WOT compared to the asthmatic flatulence of the stock exhaust. On a sunny day or on a moonlit night, nothing compares to cruising around in the cabrio with the top down and the world provides your soundtrack.
Neither is better, they just excel in different areas. There, have I made your decision harder?
After I got the cab, I went to Skip Barber and then a few autocrosses and DEs. Then I was hooked. I wanted to mod the car for better performance but it didn't make sense to me to put performance parts on an AWD cabrio which which carries more weight and is less stiff than a coupe. Hence the switch. Also, I can put 2 kids in the back of a coupe but I couldn't in my cab because of the roll bar.
I haven't autocrossed or tracked the coupe yet but, on the street they are, of course, remarkably similar. The coupe feels a little bit quicker because of the lesser weight. The coupe body doesn't flex as much and there are fewer rattles. But then again they are completely different cars because the coupe has the X74 sport suspension which is really low and stiff compared to the stock cabrio. The coupe has PSE which sounds like a symphony from idle to WOT compared to the asthmatic flatulence of the stock exhaust. On a sunny day or on a moonlit night, nothing compares to cruising around in the cabrio with the top down and the world provides your soundtrack.
Neither is better, they just excel in different areas. There, have I made your decision harder?
10-06-2009, 02:25 AM
#11
Advanced
The "best" P car is the one YOU like the best! However there is no question in my mind tha the C4S is a much better choice than the C4. Bigger Brakes, widebody rear stance with wider tires, all upgraded interior (high grade leather, some with accent stitching). Remember the C4S is considered the upgraded 996, and is second only to the Turbo in the production models with all the bells and whistles. True, the weight issue is important, but the front wheel drive unit only weighs 72lbs. The cabriolet has the added weight of the convertible top mechanism, but what does a reinforced metal roof with sunroof weigh? I will take my C4S Cabriolet anyday over a C4 coupe. Just love driving down the California Coast with the top down on a warm summer morning around 5am before the crowds come out on Highway 1! Just me and Van Halen and Sammy "can't do 55" Hagar. Sweet Dreams
10-06-2009, 02:58 AM
#12
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Happy birthday. The "mid-life crisis 911 purchase" - been there, done that.
The Porsche CPO is a reliable warranty. Volkswagen... er, I mean PCNA is not about to go bust, but you will pay slightly more for a car from a Porsche dealer.....One way to buy a privately sold car and obtain a 3rd party warranty and be able to sleep at night is to buy one from the Porsche dealer who will be servicing your car.
The Porsche CPO is a reliable warranty. Volkswagen... er, I mean PCNA is not about to go bust, but you will pay slightly more for a car from a Porsche dealer.....One way to buy a privately sold car and obtain a 3rd party warranty and be able to sleep at night is to buy one from the Porsche dealer who will be servicing your car.
10-12-2009, 08:01 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Found an 02 C4 w/ 55K miles. I scanned earlier posts about extended warrnties - most recommned warrantydirect but they don't cover 911's anymore. Anyone have an updated recommendation? Does such a thing even exist with a car that's past original warranty period?
10-26-2009, 04:20 PM
#14
I'll sell you my 03 C4S w/ 43K miles on it. Comes w/ some aesthetical mods including the following:
Lapis Blue/Silver Interior
43K miles
Lo-Jack
19" Champion RG5B's (8.5F/11R)
Brand new Toyo Proxes (245F/315R)
Tequipment Roll-Bar w/ Cross Brace
Tinted Windows (VA State Legal)
Fabspeed Muffler Bypass Pipes (including original C4S OEM Exhaust)
Misha GT2M Wing (including original C4S OEM retractable wing)
H&R Sport Springs (including the C4S OEM Stock Springs)
Fresh Clutch (replaced at 41K miles) and RMS has been replaced as well
Bose, Bi-Xenons, 6-speed, Heated Seats, etc.
Let me know at "berk @ MidAtlanticMotorClub.com". Thanks.
Lapis Blue/Silver Interior
43K miles
Lo-Jack
19" Champion RG5B's (8.5F/11R)
Brand new Toyo Proxes (245F/315R)
Tequipment Roll-Bar w/ Cross Brace
Tinted Windows (VA State Legal)
Fabspeed Muffler Bypass Pipes (including original C4S OEM Exhaust)
Misha GT2M Wing (including original C4S OEM retractable wing)
H&R Sport Springs (including the C4S OEM Stock Springs)
Fresh Clutch (replaced at 41K miles) and RMS has been replaced as well
Bose, Bi-Xenons, 6-speed, Heated Seats, etc.
Let me know at "berk @ MidAtlanticMotorClub.com". Thanks.
