is the 996 considered slow for today?

[RallyJon]

I remember that episode too. And as long as we're bench racing it's a good thing there wasn't an STI or EVO in the mix, as either would have destroyed the rest on those roads in those conditions.

[Thundertub]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

No, you're not going to outrun a new GT-R in any kind of car that doesn't also absolutely embarrass a 996.

I believe Lysoleverywhere drives a 996... Turbo.

[Van]

Originally Posted by vANiLLaNovA

another reason i asked was because sure I know i am not going to track the car (like the majority of porsche owners - i just want a nice quality made car thats reasonably fast and has the features and prestige), and i am mainly driving it highway or on the street on occasional basis.

Every Porsche owner owes it to themselves, and to the car, to take it to the track at least once.

I don't care if it's a 356 or a GT3 - it's worth it to experience these cars in a different environment.

Simply put: you'll always be able to find a more luxurious, faster, better stereo, better family car, smoother ride, cheaper maintenance, etc. car. But, after feeling the reward of pushing the car at the track (whether you're a novice or a pro), you learn what makes a Porsche a Porsche. And then you wonder why people drive anything else!

[atx.911]

Is there a good youtube video that demos the great handling of our 996s?

[himself]

Originally Posted by atx.911

Is there a good youtube video that demos the great handling of our 996s?

There are hundreds of Porsche club race and DE videos out there (youtube, vimeo, etc). I posted a pretty funny video of me in my old 996 (300 HP - with suspension mods) going head-to-head with a 550 HP 996 Turbo. Lots of power, but not so good in the twisties. lol.

-td

[Van]

One of my favorites:

[BimmFiniti]

Originally Posted by LJpete

The 335 has more than it's stated 300hp... It's an impressive car but it's heavy as a boat.

Drive one and compare and it's willingness to turn is not as nice as the 996. Also the driver involvement/feedback is no where near as good.

Wow! Really? I have the opposite perception of driver involvement in a BMW vs a Porsche.
* I have an '01 330i Sedan w/ Sport Package and an '02 996 C2, both bone-stock, both riding on PS2s
* The 330i's steering feel, balance and general linearity is better than the 996, no question. Maybe 335's aren't like 330's?
* I have tracked both cars and much prefer the BMW. I'm pretty sure I'm actually faster in the 330i (sad comparing the 100 hp difference) because of the 996's body roll and suspension "float".
* I'd be the first to admit I haven't quite figured out the Porsche when I'm running @ 9 - 10/10'ths; not a problem (never has been) in the Bimmer

And by the way, my buddy sold the car after 2 years and picked up an E90 M3. A better car by comparison to the 335 by every stretch but still no where near as rewarding to drive as the 996...

Perhaps not the same comparison, but I still prefer my 330i, as a driver's car, to my 996. The 996 looks the part and is definitely faster in a straight line. But in the twisties... I have just the opposite impression of the two cars. I find the Porsche very easy to drive up to about 7/10'ths, then it gets tricky; the Bimmer is easy up to 9/10'ths.

[RaphaelPlascencia]

Originally Posted by BimmFiniti

Wow! Really? I have the opposite perception of driver involvement in a BMW vs a Porsche.
* I have an '01 330i Sedan w/ Sport Package and an '02 996 C2, both bone-stock, both riding on PS2s
* The 330i's steering feel, balance and general linearity is better than the 996, no question. Maybe 335's aren't like 330's?
* I have tracked both cars and much prefer the BMW. I'm pretty sure I'm actually faster in the 330i (sad comparing the 100 hp difference) because of the 996's body roll and suspension "float".
* I'd be the first to admit I haven't quite figured out the Porsche when I'm running @ 9 - 10/10'ths; not a problem (never has been) in the Bimmer



Perhaps not the same comparison, but I still prefer my 330i, as a driver's car, to my 996. The 996 looks the part and is definitely faster in a straight line. But in the twisties... I have just the opposite impression of the two cars. I find the Porsche very easy to drive up to about 7/10'ths, then it gets tricky; the Bimmer is easy up to 9/10'ths.

The "terrible handling" in a Porsche is caused by it's rear engine design. You know, it's in the "wrong place." It's against all the rules... In reality these are just excuses for lack of skills on the driver's part in my honest opinion, & I'll admit I'm one of these people who lack the skills (for now). I'm still learning more & more about controling my 996 after a year of ownership & lots of hard driving. I'm far from a pro, but those times when I do get it "just right" (a combination of perfect steering, throttle control, braking, etc.), the car is just magical. If you know how to use it, the rear engine design allows for later braking into a turn, getting on the throttle faster coming out of a turn, very "tossable" & maneuvarable handling, etc.

Another thing is that I think a lot of people confuse "easy" with "fast." The 3 series cars are known for their easiness to drive fast, & from what I've seen, it's true (my brother owns an E92 M3). Going fast takes almost no effort, & therefore it's easier to get better laptimes or w/e than in a 911. But if you work on your skill, concentrate, & work the magic, the Porsche is so much more rewarding. Both in feel as well speed.

Sounds cheesy, but there really is no substitute.

[LJpete]

Originally Posted by BimmFiniti

Wow! Really? I have the opposite perception of driver involvement in a BMW vs a Porsche.
* I have an '01 330i Sedan w/ Sport Package and an '02 996 C2, both bone-stock, both riding on PS2s
* The 330i's steering feel, balance and general linearity is better than the 996, no question. Maybe 335's aren't like 330's?
* I have tracked both cars and much prefer the BMW. I'm pretty sure I'm actually faster in the 330i (sad comparing the 100 hp difference) because of the 996's body roll and suspension "float".
* I'd be the first to admit I haven't quite figured out the Porsche when I'm running @ 9 - 10/10'ths; not a problem (never has been) in the Bimmer



Perhaps not the same comparison, but I still prefer my 330i, as a driver's car, to my 996. The 996 looks the part and is definitely faster in a straight line. But in the twisties... I have just the opposite impression of the two cars. I find the Porsche very easy to drive up to about 7/10'ths, then it gets tricky; the Bimmer is easy up to 9/10'ths.

Your suspension might be a bit worn in your 996 as you should not have excessive body roll.

I've had the opportunity to drive every model 3 series since 91 with the exception of the E30 M3 in an autocross or track environment. If you think your E46 is good, you should try driving the E36 and the E30. While the E30 isn't as fast on the track with out some mods the cars level of involvement and balance is without a doubt better than successive generations. With each generation the numbness and weight has been increased and some of the magic has been lost. I personally favor the E36 as the speed and power it great and the car can be made to be very neutral with only alignment tweeks. The E36 M3 is one of the easiest cars to drive fast that I've had the pleasure to drive (campaigned several M3's in SCCA and BMW CCA Autocrosses).

I'll also echo the sentiments of Raphael. The 996 requires a different driving style and technique as it is a rear engine car. Where is front engined cars can enter corners a bit quicker and brake a bit later in to the corner. Where our cars really shine is corner exit. If your really comfortable with a rear engine car, you can brake late, allow the car to rotate and get on the gas and the corner exit is incredible. Also the 996 and all Porsche's for the most part respond to very delicate inputs. The smoother and gentler you drive the faster you go. While this is the same with the BMWs, they really let you get away with much more dramatic inputs. It feels faster because the weight transitions are harder but it's not faster in reality. The 996 penalizes you for driving it like a front engine rear drive car. It took me a bit to adapt and re-learn my driving style to get the most out of my car and I'm still learning it. BMW really sets up their cars to be very easy to drive fast and forgiving if you make mistakes. The opposite is true for the 911 and that's the fun and challenge of the 911. Extracting the most out of the 911 really pushes you to be a better driver. Just wait until you mod your 996 and it becomes really sensitive to your inputs. My frist 996 with all the goodies (PSS9s, GT3 sways and alignment) was so razor sharp and crisp it eclipses my current stock 996. It's almost a day and night difference.

Just so you know, my buddy with the E90 M3 stock to stock in autocrosses was loosing to me by around a second compared to my 10 year old 996 with 296hp and original suspension. It took him, wider tires, 2k in suspension mods and custom alignment to close the gap and there are days when the course is right I can get him. When I drove his car, I was amazed at the amount of "mistakes" and manhadling I could get a way with in his car as compared to mine.

With stock alignment in the 996, it's easy to over power the front tires if you try and brake and turn in due to the lack of weight up front and relatively skinny front tires. If your smooth and do most of your braking before corner entry, you can load your fronts and the turn in is fantastic. If you need more, trailbrake, rotate the car, get on gas when your pointed the right way and squirt out of the turn. With the right tire pressure tweeks this car can be fairly neutral and produce nice TTOS if you over cook a turn.

As regard to steering feel and linearity, I will have to aggree to disagree with you as my E36 (with an x-brace, 3.4 degrees of camber and 0 toe) and even the E46 M3 (with H/R suspension, custom alignment and non staggered wider tires) I co drove for several years, didn't come close to the sensitivity and turn in of my stock suspension and alignment 996.

I don't mean to imply that you're not driving the car with the correct driving style but when I compare the 2 types of cars steering and involvment these are my observations.

[ivangene]

LOL At that Vid Van - I love his comments!!

"now obviously I'm not going to ride the bike because I am a heterosexual..... and I don't like wearing rubber trousers"
"Neil is a brunette with a 40-30-30 figure"
"His ambition is to grow an avocado tree... from a stone"

"Jason has a 36" nose"

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by ivangene

LOL At that Vid Van - I love his comments!!

"now obviously I'm not going to ride the bike because I am a heterosexual..... and I don't like wearing rubber trousers"
"Neil is a brunette with a 40-30-30 figure"
"His ambition is to grow an avocado tree... from a stone"

"Jason has a 36" nose"

This is one of the best 996 videos out there!
This is also an excellent thread with great info. My question: What tire pressure setup will give the 996 more neutral handling?

[red996]

OP SAYS

i am mainly driving it highway or on the street on occasional basis

If you can find a 996 or 997 to test drive on the highway you will see the light. Your limits might be lower than the cars top speed. Also the cops might throw you in jail. These things have incredible high speed stability. Zero to 60 seems like a non issue in this respect.

[Van]

Originally Posted by ivangene

LOL At that Vid Van - I love his comments!!

"now obviously I'm not going to ride the bike because I am a heterosexual..... and I don't like wearing rubber trousers"
"Neil is a brunette with a 40-30-30 figure"
"His ambition is to grow an avocado tree... from a stone"

"Jason has a 36" nose"

I liked:

"Jason is a racer in the touring car series; his ambition is... to win it."

[atx.911]

Originally Posted by himself

There are hundreds of Porsche club race and DE videos out there (youtube, vimeo, etc). I posted a pretty funny video of me in my old 996 (300 HP - with suspension mods) going head-to-head with a 550 HP 996 Turbo. Lots of power, but not so good in the twisties. lol.

-td

NEMESIS!!!! Hahaha out of nowhere NEMESIS!! Great video although, I thought your nemesis was a mustang who spun wildly out of control? LOL

[atx.911]

Originally Posted by Van

One of my favorites:

AH HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!