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Driving a 996 on ice, slush or snow hard?

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Old 01-06-2011, 10:43 AM
  #31  
Ray S
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In snowy conditions skinny snow tires beat wide snow tires all day long.

My rears tires are 295's in the summer and 225's in the winter.
Old 01-06-2011, 11:02 AM
  #32  
Receiver
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Originally Posted by jordanturbo
I would have to say you are wrong on the Blizzak comment. I have the 11" wide turbo wheels on my porsche and have run a few tire options

A Bridgestone Blizzack in a 265 width, a Pirelli Sottozero in a 265 and 295 width, a Dunlop Wintersport 3D in a 265 and 285, and lastly Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 in a 265 width. Out of all of these I prefer the Dunlop Wintersport 3D's in the 285 with.

The reason I say this is because I found the Blizzak's to me a little to mushy in dry conditions when you want to have fun with the car.

I should have been more specific. These were the only 275's I could find. I've run 265's in the past but didn't like the way they fit on 11" wheels. Since both of my sets of wheels are 11" rears and I don't want to go through the hassle of selling one set and buying a set with 10" rears, I decided to put on 275's. I had previously run 275's on the Dunlop Wintersports but they apparently are no longer available.
Old 01-06-2011, 11:26 AM
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Sneaky Pete
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Originally Posted by Ray S
In snowy conditions skinny snow tires beat wide snow tires all day long.

My rears tires are 295's in the summer and 225's in the winter.
Completely agree....skinnier is better in the snow. I run 295 in Summer and 265 Winter.

A question to most is do you want to look good or drive better / safer in the Winter?
Old 01-06-2011, 12:21 PM
  #34  
jordanturbo
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Originally Posted by Receiver
I should have been more specific. These were the only 275's I could find. I've run 265's in the past but didn't like the way they fit on 11" wheels. Since both of my sets of wheels are 11" rears and I don't want to go through the hassle of selling one set and buying a set with 10" rears, I decided to put on 275's. I had previously run 275's on the Dunlop Wintersports but they apparently are no longer available.
I believe Dunlop has a 285/35/r18 in their wintersport 3D available still not the M3 but I do prefer the 3D and the 285 is closer to the factory recommended size. My family has a few tire shops so I am pretty familiar with every possible tire that will work on the 18x11 wheels. I go through a couple sets of winters a year and am fairly experienced with winter and summer tires in general.

I know that a narrower tire gives you better traction in the snow/ice but I much prefer the feel of the 285 to the 265 width and find I am not actually sacrificing a huge amount in traction by the little bit of additional width.
Old 01-06-2011, 01:10 PM
  #35  
Dennis C
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Porsche recommends dropping to a 10-inch rear wheel for the C4S/turbo and running a 265 width tire. That's what I do, and it works well.
Old 01-06-2011, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis C
Porsche recommends dropping to a 10-inch rear wheel for the C4S/turbo and running a 265 width tire. That's what I do, and it works well.
That's the setup I have. Seems to work really well.
Old 01-07-2011, 09:47 PM
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howardm50
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Originally Posted by Dennis C
Porsche recommends dropping to a 10-inch rear wheel for the C4S/turbo and running a 265 width tire. That's what I do, and it works well.
Ditto on my C4S. But I run 18mm spacers on the back as even with the right wheel offset those suckers look like *** when mounted.
Old 01-08-2011, 12:28 PM
  #38  
BruceP
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Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete
Completely agree....skinnier is better in the snow. I run 295 in Summer and 265 Winter.

A question to most is do you want to look good or drive better / safer in the Winter?
True for snow. But I think a lot of people read that as true for winter, which it isn't. If, like me, your winter driving is largely urban and more about ice, moisture and cold pavement surface temps, taller, narrower tires are unnecessarily sacrificing safety and performance for no benefit. In those circumstances, you're better off with a winter performance tire in stock widths. It's gotta be about the right tool for the job.
Old 01-08-2011, 12:44 PM
  #39  
Sneaky Pete
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265 is a stock width....I have them on 18x10's.

Even though its splitting hairs I agree with your comment.
Old 01-08-2011, 01:42 PM
  #40  
CT944
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The last 2 New England storms we had (including yesterday) I drove my C4S with the factory snow set-up. It was great, and I was making it up inclines that other cars couldn't.

One thing I noticed was this left to right pulling, almost like a floating feeling at 30-40 mph. I am sure the snow/slush had alot to do with it, but was that feeling the AWD system engaging and compensating for wheel slip?
Old 01-08-2011, 05:31 PM
  #41  
redridge
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Originally Posted by CT944
The last 2 New England storms we had (including yesterday) I drove my C4S with the factory snow set-up. It was great, and I was making it up inclines that other cars couldn't.

One thing I noticed was this left to right pulling, almost like a floating feeling at 30-40 mph. I am sure the snow/slush had alot to do with it, but was that feeling the AWD system engaging and compensating for wheel slip?
was your PSM light engaging? if not it most likely is just the snow... the awd drive brings power to the front to both wheels equally. But if slipping occurs, the brakes will try to slow the slipping wheel down (a form of traction control).
Old 01-08-2011, 05:53 PM
  #42  
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No PSM lights were going on. Maybe just the snow. The wheel/tire combo 225/265 is pretty wide for snows, so I bet there was some natural float going on. Once I got off the Merritt, while going down my road which was covered in snow, I gave it some gas and the PSM kicked in, it really works great and the car seemed very stable. I think I just have to get used to the handling charactoristics.
Old 01-08-2011, 07:55 PM
  #43  
Ray S
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Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete
265 is a stock width....I have them on 18x10's.

Even though its splitting hairs I agree with your comment.
True for a Mk I 996, but not a Mk II or a C4S.

I agree 265 seems pretty wide to me for a snow tire, but I'm not sure how narrow a tire you could get on the C4S
Old 01-18-2011, 02:40 AM
  #44  
steepsnow
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Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete
Great tips!^^^^ With PSS10, what is your ride height? Do you raise for the winter?
Presently, the car is at GT3 street spec; no adjustable drop-links, yet .
So, I am pretty low...
I have been considering the ride-height change. Initially, that was my plan.
IMHO - The primary benefit is related to ice chunks. Having some more clearance would be nice when you are coming up on a 6-8" chunk in the middle of the road. The next benefits would be ruts and deeper snow.

So far, I am not planning on making the ride height change this year. The snow season came late in Denver (still running on the track in November at 50+ degrees). Now, April/May seem so close that I don't feel like paying for 2 alignments in the next few months. Plus, if we get a warm-spell, all I need to do is swap tires for a track day.

~~~
BTW - I am using Blizzak LM-25 tires:
Front: 205/50/17 on 17x7.5
(exact diameter match to stock 25.1")(.5" narrower)

Rear: 255/40/17 on 17x9
(slightly less diameter than stock 25.0" vs 25.3") (1" narrower)

~~~

Regarding the PSS10 and Sway Bar settings...
I have been experimenting quite a bit this year.

First: Sway Bars
So far, I like the H&R (front and rear) set to the softest setting. I tried different combinations, but feel like sway should be as soft as possible. Then leave the oversteer/understeer bias control to the PSS10. (BTW - If I do go for ride-height adjustment next year, I'll probably also go for full sway disconnect)

Next: PSS10
Normal (daily) Setting F=3, R=4
Bias= neutral to slight oversteer on slick conditions.
More fun in an open parking lot with PSM off.

Super slick conditions, pushing the limit of the car (mountain driving, not urban) F=2, R=2
Bias = neutral to slight understeer, safer at higher speeds, less "twitchy"
Plenty of throttle oversteer and throttle-lift oversteer (pitch and catch), but the car is easier to save if it is pushed a little too far.

More notes:
If we have mostly dry weather, I'll tighten up 1 notch F and R, although staying even or slight stiffer bias to rear.

I have run F=1, R=1 and F2,R1 and F1,R2. At the #1 settings the car bounces/rebounds too much over bumps. Kind of a porpoise effect, not good.

I have tried stiffer front settings (i.e. F3,R2), but find the car pushes badly at slow speeds.

For some perspective, here are some of my summer suspension settings:
Sways: Front = middle, Rear=stiffest
Normal Daily: F7,R8
slower, technical track(i.e. High Plains): F9,R10
faster, flowing track (i.e. Laguna Seca): F10,R10

~~~~

A couple more thoughts...

Weight is a big factor as well. Fully loaded down with two people and board/ski gear, etc the car does perform better (in snow/ice) than with just me.

Assuming best possible performance, skinnier/thinner tires are better in snow, snowpacked, slush, however wider tires (up to stock widths) are better on ICE. So, choose your width depending on the typical conditions where you live.

Just like everything else, there is compromise...best on ice is studded, but studded are LAME on dry (loud and slippery), etc.

If you push the car when it is dry, or if you live where it is mostly dry with a few snowy days, stick to stock widths. If you push the skinny, snow tires on dry pavement, they will scare you on a freeway offramp you are used to hitting with your summer tires and simply wear out very quickly.



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