Hyperguy

Hi folks

I've been a long time browser of the forum but just registered. Like everyone else owning a 911 has been a dream since I was a kid. I am finally in a position to pick something up.

Ideally I wanted to get a 2006-2007 997 but I am constrained by my budget. Came across a 2004 C2 with about 35k miles on it, 18" wheels, Bose, PSM, heated seats and sport seats and was wondering how much you guys think this is worth. Dealer is willing to CPO it. Would I still need to do a PPI in this case?

Cheers

Peter 642

Howdy. First time listener, long time caller.
Few things. First, search function on the forum is your friend. Look at the hot issues for the 996 and the 997, and decide if you want to deal with those issues (IMS, RMS, etc).
Next, if your budget is very constrained, a Porsche may not be for you. Specifically a 10 year-old Porsche isn't for you. If the entry price of the car is the end of your funds for your car, look elsewhere, or when your window stops working, you're done for.
Next, the cars are different. Drive them both and see what you like. Is this your first Porsche?
Next, why did you want a 2007 997? Was it for looks? Styling? "Newer car?"
Next, the "worthy" price on a 2004 C2 with 35K miles and a few options is dependent entirely on the condition of the car. A dealer could charge as much at $45,000 for that car. Is it worth that? To someone, maybe.
Finally, yes; ideally you would do a PPI on any used car, unless you absolutely know the dealership although the CPO can give you a bit of piece of mind. You don't have much time left to CPO a 2004 car, it being 2012 now; the 8-year CPO window is about to run out, and you'll want to know exactly what that CPO will/won't cover. So in either case, I still think yes PPI. If you're not willing to spend the $250 for a PPI now (or $100 without the compression testing), walk away and wait until you are to buy a car like this.
Good luck.

Hyperguy

Peter 642, appreciate your response. I've read through dozens of posts on this site and was of the understanding that the IMs issues, etc were more specific to the earlier models I.e. 99-02. Is this incorrect? I also thought getting a CPO would mitigate the risk.

I tend to be very prudent with my hard earned money hence the reason I've capped my budget but suffice it to say maintenance or other minor issues would not pose a financial problem. I drove a 2008 and actually liked the 2004 more (go figure) - the 2004 felt more compact and raw.

I do plan on getting a PPI done but was just wondering whether people here get it done even on CPO cars. There have been several discussions on the matter on this forum but nothing definitive.

To answer your last question, given the choice obviously one would choose the 997 - it's newer, less likely to have problems and would retain more value.

spender

The advice I would give to anyone on this is to "buy the best Porsche you can afford". With a few notable exceptions (996 Turbo > 997 C2, C4S; 996 C4S > 997 C2; 996 GT2 or GT3 > 997 GT2) the 997 seems to be the better buy (and a more comfortable ride, too). As prices for the 997s are expected to have their biggest proportional drop since their introduction once the 991s hit the streets, you may be better off waiting a few months for picking up your 997.

I truly LOVE my 996 C4S, but if I had the means to get a brand spanking new 991 (will be close to $150K in Canada), I'm sure I would like that more...

spender

One more note on your post, the earliest 997s have virtually the same IMS issues as the late 996s.

fpb111

If the price is right for you, you like the car, and they will supply it with a CPO I would buy it.

Dennis C

It's not just the earliest 997s... it's the 2005 - 2008 models. The 2009 and newer cars don't have an intermediate shaft, so the IMS issue isn't there.

Hyperguy

Yeah down the road it will be nice to get the latest and the greatest. Right now I'm just looking for a daily driver. Envy you guys in the states though, you get a lot more for the money than here in Canada!

street rod

Car is probably worth 33k - 38k depending on options, service/owner history, CPO etc. And yes get a PPI.

jefe_not

So why not buy one in the States and enjoy the drive back to Canada, eh?

Peter 642

No. See above. And no; getting a CPO does not mitigate the IMS issue. Replacing and retrofitting probably does, but with these cars even that's not a sure thing....well, as close as you can get, anyway. Or avoid the IMS and go with Dennis' suggestion on the 2009+ models.

That is correct. Your observation that you enjoyed the 2004 more is not a shock at all. The 997 and now the 991 models are built to be more comfortable, easier to drive, etc. Look at this year's recent ad campaign on busing your kids to school in a speed yellow 997. Folks "complain" that the 997 keeps them farther from the road. Having driven a 997 turbo, I'm not entirely sure of that. I can tell you that like Spender there, I too love my car but if a brand spankin' new 991 fell into my lap, I'd likely sell the C4S and drive the snot out of the new car instead.

Keep all of that in mind if it's going to be a DD for you. Toronto gets cold, and icy and snowy. Assume you have another car, but there's nothing wrong with driving your C4 in the snow either, especially if this is a true DD for you. If your commute is short, and you like the 996 feel, I'd go with that personally. Spend the money on the later model (2004 if you can find one), get a 4 or 4S, and save the rest for the next car, when the 991 is old, and the 997 is cheap(er).

Just my 0.02 Canadian cents that are now equivalent exactly to the US 0.02 cents.

sds911

I recently purchased a 2004 40th AE 996 with CPO. I did not do a ppi, prior to buying because I felt comfortable with the warranty. I do plan to take it to an independent shop to check everything and make any warranty claim that comes to light. Costco also offers an extended service plan in many states.

I've already taken the car back to the dealer for several issues. Many are commonly reported on the 996 forum. Biggest issue so far was a rear control arm failure, poor gas mileage and a floating feeling at high speed. I'll see this week if the new control arm addresses these issues.

spender

Yes, but make that work for you! The Canadian Dollar is strong right now against the USD, at virtual parity. Lots of selection south of the border, and desperate vendors. Just buy American, then pay 5% GST plus 6.1% duty at the border (plus about $2,000 shipping depending where it's coming from). As for the importation process, it's so easy a caveman could do it!

Hyperguy

I have been considering buying American as well - certainly more selection available but I thought duty was 6% and GST 13% - at least in Ontario? At that rate the only advantage to shopping down south is for the wider selection.

Was considering a C4 as well but not seeing many around here surprisingly. Toronto gets cold in winter but the snow clears up quick. Also I live and work downtown so not much of a commute. The car will be for driving around the city - mostly downtown to be honest - I like my convenience I drove the C2 on winter tires and it felt solid.

Surprised no one has commented on the headlights - it seems to be a major pet peeve around here. I do prefer the lights on the 997 but there has to be a balance!

Dennis C

I don't mind the 996 headlights. Really. It's a beautiful car, despite what the 993 or 997 folks might say.

FWIW, a C2 with proper winter tires will do fine in the snow. You don't have to have a C4 or a C4S. They are nice, but not an absolute necessity for driving in snow. Tires make a bigger difference.