Can I drive a 911 for 7 years for $44K?
03-05-2013, 11:23 AM
#31
Racer
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When I purchased my car in 09 i was told to have $5k set aside per year for repairs and maint.
Now I've never spent that much in a year, but its always a possibility. My largest bill was just under $4K for IMS upgrade, RMS, AOS, H2O pump cant remember what else. Lowest year was last year at about $1,400. This year I need breaks all around + rotors.
I have two fords were are cheep to R&M I never get scared taking them to the garage.
Just go into a purchase with eyes wide open.
My 911 is the best car i've ever owned.
Now I've never spent that much in a year, but its always a possibility. My largest bill was just under $4K for IMS upgrade, RMS, AOS, H2O pump cant remember what else. Lowest year was last year at about $1,400. This year I need breaks all around + rotors.
I have two fords were are cheep to R&M I never get scared taking them to the garage.
Just go into a purchase with eyes wide open.
My 911 is the best car i've ever owned.
03-05-2013, 11:45 AM
#32
Three Wheelin'
You ask a somewhat strange question considering the existing fleet that you describe, particularly the NSX. As a good 996 is the equal or better of any of them (BAM!, I just pissed off NSX world) and money seems a major issue, I assume you would start by getting rid of all of those cars to concentrate on just one Porsche..
03-05-2013, 11:46 AM
#33
Three Wheelin'
I really have to wonder where you get your figures.
Hankook Ventus V12's, all around, cost me ~$700 (including shipping, mounting, and balancing). There is not a single tire on Tirerack that touches $500 for even the 18" option ($338 is the most expensive for a rear). A far cry from $500 indeed.
My IMS bearing cost ~$700, the clutch kit was ~$650, and the seal cost was negligible (labor). Porsche book time is ~7 hours; add a bit for the IMS work. Unless you're paying ~$400 an hour, your quote is rediculous. Worst case scenario leaves you needing a flywheel as well (~$800). You've still got a long way to hit your $4k figure.
Your quotes are nowhere near reality. Are you just making these up?
Hankook Ventus V12's, all around, cost me ~$700 (including shipping, mounting, and balancing). There is not a single tire on Tirerack that touches $500 for even the 18" option ($338 is the most expensive for a rear). A far cry from $500 indeed.
My IMS bearing cost ~$700, the clutch kit was ~$650, and the seal cost was negligible (labor). Porsche book time is ~7 hours; add a bit for the IMS work. Unless you're paying ~$400 an hour, your quote is rediculous. Worst case scenario leaves you needing a flywheel as well (~$800). You've still got a long way to hit your $4k figure.
Your quotes are nowhere near reality. Are you just making these up?
03-05-2013, 11:50 AM
#34
Track Day
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Wow, I realize my question was naive, so I really appreciate all of the input. Can you guys visit me in Traverse City, MI and meet with my wife? (and no, only to discuss 911's)
With instructions, I am not afraid to do anything, given the right tools and plenty of time. I do love working on the miata and civic, its so easy and problems are usually easily diagnosed. I would be concerned about diagnosing Porsche problems, but with a resource like this, its less daunting. I would also not track the 911, leaving that to the cheap to fix cars. I don't track the NSX either, my wife is my collector car insurance agent, I call it Nagerty insurance. I know, I'm hilarious. The NSX has 164K on it but still looks and runs great, I also have Cody and the Lovefab NSX shop one mile away, hence the off hours lifts. I will try and remember to take a picture of it sitting there and not being driven. I agree with WalterRohrl that you only live once and I have always wanted a Porsche.
The back seat is definitely a big issue, but I swear its better than a BRZ or TT back seat. My kids will be going to my school for the next three and a half years, then they go to high school, and they will both be tall. But short trips only so don't report my to child services.
My wife would love for me to sell all my cars and buy one, but it would be too hard for me, and I would only get another $35K probably. And I am just fine with a "base" model 911. I find 300hp satisfying.
Thanks again for all of the great advice, I am much clearer on where my research needs to go from here.
With instructions, I am not afraid to do anything, given the right tools and plenty of time. I do love working on the miata and civic, its so easy and problems are usually easily diagnosed. I would be concerned about diagnosing Porsche problems, but with a resource like this, its less daunting. I would also not track the 911, leaving that to the cheap to fix cars. I don't track the NSX either, my wife is my collector car insurance agent, I call it Nagerty insurance. I know, I'm hilarious. The NSX has 164K on it but still looks and runs great, I also have Cody and the Lovefab NSX shop one mile away, hence the off hours lifts. I will try and remember to take a picture of it sitting there and not being driven. I agree with WalterRohrl that you only live once and I have always wanted a Porsche.
The back seat is definitely a big issue, but I swear its better than a BRZ or TT back seat. My kids will be going to my school for the next three and a half years, then they go to high school, and they will both be tall. But short trips only so don't report my to child services.
My wife would love for me to sell all my cars and buy one, but it would be too hard for me, and I would only get another $35K probably. And I am just fine with a "base" model 911. I find 300hp satisfying.
Thanks again for all of the great advice, I am much clearer on where my research needs to go from here.
03-05-2013, 11:53 AM
#35
Three Wheelin'
As far as diagnostics for Porsche, for $250 you can have near-dealer level tools:
http://www.durametric.com/porsche-carrera-996.aspx
http://www.durametric.com/porsche-carrera-996.aspx
03-05-2013, 11:54 AM
#36
Track Day
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NSX's have there share of issues and parts can be very expensive, but many issues are owner created. That said, I don't hesitate to drive mine on trips, when I get let out.
03-05-2013, 11:57 AM
#37
Burning Brakes
Actually, I think KK has a point about the OPs question. Who makes in the mid 40s per year, but buys/budgets for a $44k car (including maintenance) over a 7 year period? Not to be snobby, if anyone out there owns a 996 and makes $44k, and has a wife & 2 kids and other vehicles, mortage etc, but really? Not a wise move financially, in the least. Who actually says (specifically) $44k over 7 years? Kind of odd way to word it, dontcha think? Makes more sense that he started the title thinking "Can I afford a 996 with payments & maintenace over 7 years, if I only make $44k?" regardless of how it reads. Then the rest of the post makes a bit more sense.
Hell, if you live in the UP, go ahead and get one. You can only drive it for the 3 weeks of summer you have up there, anyway...;-)
Hell, if you live in the UP, go ahead and get one. You can only drive it for the 3 weeks of summer you have up there, anyway...;-)
03-05-2013, 12:15 PM
#38
Track Day
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I am very careful with my money, I am a teacher after all (tightwads!) and I have a background in finance, but mostly because I want cars. While I only earn in the 40's and my wife 30's, we sold our old house, which we paid off, land contract, which basically pays for our new house (modest but 6 car garage) which we made nice with savings. I have always owned reliable old cars that hardly depreciate and I don't spend money on myself except car stuff and tracking. Once I deduct for college savings, monthly bills, food and other needless expenses, non 911 maintenance monthly allowance, and vacation fund, I end up with $500 a month plus current car fund. I can either finance the car or "borrow" from college savings. So that's were I came up with the 7 year idea, after that, I will be replacing our winter drivers (04 accord and 05 pilot) per an agreement with the wifey. Sorry for so much detail, but that is were that figure comes from.
03-05-2013, 12:21 PM
#39
Three Wheelin'
I am very careful with my money, I am a teacher after all (tightwads!) and I have a background in finance, but mostly because I want cars. While I only earn in the 40's and my wife 30's, we sold our old house, which we paid off, land contract, which basically pays for our new house (modest but 6 car garage) which we made nice with savings. I have always owned reliable old cars that hardly depreciate and I don't spend money on myself except car stuff and tracking. Once I deduct for college savings, monthly bills, food and other needless expenses, non 911 maintenance monthly allowance, and vacation fund, I end up with $500 a month plus current car fund. I can either finance the car or "borrow" from college savings. So that's were I came up with the 7 year idea, after that, I will be replacing our winter drivers (04 accord and 05 pilot) per an agreement with the wifey. Sorry for so much detail, but that is were that figure comes from.
03-05-2013, 12:29 PM
#40
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She works for Hagerty Collector car insurance. I am a co-founder / teacher administrator of a small but popular charter school. No pension but we both max our 401K's and our employers contribute a little. I also look at my parents and I would rather live it up a little now while I can appreciate it. And gas powered 911's will be worth millions by the time I retire!
03-05-2013, 12:33 PM
#41
I am very careful with my money, I am a teacher after all (tightwads!) and I have a background in finance, but mostly because I want cars. While I only earn in the 40's and my wife 30's, we sold our old house, which we paid off, land contract, which basically pays for our new house (modest but 6 car garage) which we made nice with savings. I have always owned reliable old cars that hardly depreciate and I don't spend money on myself except car stuff and tracking. Once I deduct for college savings, monthly bills, food and other needless expenses, non 911 maintenance monthly allowance, and vacation fund, I end up with $500 a month plus current car fund. I can either finance the car or "borrow" from college savings. So that's were I came up with the 7 year idea, after that, I will be replacing our winter drivers (04 accord and 05 pilot) per an agreement with the wifey. Sorry for so much detail, but that is were that figure comes from.
RJ - It appears to me that you have a better grasp on your figures than 99% of the people out there that run out and get a new car....And probably better than many of the people on here as well before they bought their Porsche. As I said before, you only live once, you have extra cars "just in case" and if it makes you happy without causing you to neglect your other responsibilities, then great. The ultimate litmus test for affordability is an extreme one, but basically what would happen if you bought the car and for some reason you lost the whole thing to some catastrophic uninsured event or failure? Would it cause you or your family irreparable hardship? If no, then you're good to go. People on here are constantly posting about good part deals that they found or who is selling oil for half off or how they dropped their engine to replace an AOS or whatever. Most of the people on here are regular folks and there are more of them every year as these cars age and A) some need more repairs, B) the people buying them buy them used and don't go to the dealer for everything and C) the people here have way more mechanical interest and knowledge than the average car owner, irrespective of budget.
That's the beauty of buying a 996 (or any other older car) vs. a newer car of which most are either under warranty or completely dealer maintained. Older cars tend to have more of a knowledge base out there in regard to repairs and maintenance for the DIY'er due to simple necessity.
03-05-2013, 12:45 PM
#42
Actually, I think KK has a point about the OPs question. Who makes in the mid 40s per year, but buys/budgets for a $44k car (including maintenance) over a 7 year period? Not to be snobby, if anyone out there owns a 996 and makes $44k, and has a wife & 2 kids and other vehicles, mortage etc, but really? Not a wise move financially, in the least. Who actually says (specifically) $44k over 7 years? Kind of odd way to word it, dontcha think? Makes more sense that he started the title thinking "Can I afford a 996 with payments & maintenace over 7 years, if I only make $44k?" regardless of how it reads. Then the rest of the post makes a bit more sense.
Ditto on the tires, that discount tire mail in rebate promo was clutch. Hankook Ventus v12 295/30 ran me under $200 a pop.
Walter, well stated.
03-05-2013, 01:06 PM
#43
your climate can impact the amount of maintenace required. Porsches driven in year round warm climates require much less attention than winter driven cars. I only drive my Boxster S on weekends but that includes winters and I've easily put $15K into the car over the course of the first 70K miles, not including the the purchase price of course.
Granted, I usually upgrade things when they need replacing. But as you know with expensive German cars: costs of repairs do not scale down with depreciation. And if you make the mistake of many to presume that a Boxster is cheaper to maintain than a 996, then think again. Same expensive parts, same specialized labor.
Expenses fall into three categories. Unexpected repairs. It seems like those hardly ever seem anything less than $600. The second group is major maintenace items -- Shocks, clutch, exhaust, etc. Those can run into the $3-$4k range easily. And then there's run of the mill maintenace like oil changes, tires, pads etc. This last group is not what's going to eat the major part of the your budget. The costs are really driven by parts more than labor.
My advice if your watching your pennies is not to own the same Porsche for the length of time you are considering. Once you get deeper into the odometer you can have several repairs in a very short amount of time that can add up to 25% of the purchase price for a $20K 996. Get a California 996 with low miles, an already upgraded IMS, and sell it before drifts into higher mileage. That means you'll have to either negotiate very aggresively or you'll have to layout some more cash up front to cover the lower mileage or you can do both.
Granted, I usually upgrade things when they need replacing. But as you know with expensive German cars: costs of repairs do not scale down with depreciation. And if you make the mistake of many to presume that a Boxster is cheaper to maintain than a 996, then think again. Same expensive parts, same specialized labor.
Expenses fall into three categories. Unexpected repairs. It seems like those hardly ever seem anything less than $600. The second group is major maintenace items -- Shocks, clutch, exhaust, etc. Those can run into the $3-$4k range easily. And then there's run of the mill maintenace like oil changes, tires, pads etc. This last group is not what's going to eat the major part of the your budget. The costs are really driven by parts more than labor.
My advice if your watching your pennies is not to own the same Porsche for the length of time you are considering. Once you get deeper into the odometer you can have several repairs in a very short amount of time that can add up to 25% of the purchase price for a $20K 996. Get a California 996 with low miles, an already upgraded IMS, and sell it before drifts into higher mileage. That means you'll have to either negotiate very aggresively or you'll have to layout some more cash up front to cover the lower mileage or you can do both.
03-05-2013, 01:20 PM
#44
I dont see where the OP posted that he wanted an MKI or II, C2, C4S, TT, Targa, Cab, etc. Maybe it would help if you narrowed down what your looking for in the 996 line. I dont think it would be wise to buy a very high mileage MKI and not expect to spend many $$$$ on repairs (unless youre another Imre).
Just pick a few 996 parts that you think you might need to replace and do some price checks. Prepare to be floored. The "Porsche tax" is absurd.
Just pick a few 996 parts that you think you might need to replace and do some price checks. Prepare to be floored. The "Porsche tax" is absurd.
03-05-2013, 01:43 PM
#45
Intermediate
I have a 140+ mph truck. Probably 50% of the 25,000 ever made ever saw anything over 110. Even those who do crack those speeds can't do it long enough for a N rated or Z rated tire to matter. Heck I pulled 155 for about a minute and a half in my truck on the way back from Vegas down 95 (many people know this part of the freeway) on Hankooks, under rated. Because time at speed matters more than the speed it's self. I pull 130mph all the time on under rated under weighted tires, for 11 seconds...