Mhenry

Things like this are very sobering. I would love to take my 996 out for a DE but without a cage I worry. Ill will stick to caged cars. I am very relieved the car held up and both of you walked away. Instructors have alot of courage getting into the suicide seat.

DTMiller

I am constantly amazed that instructors exist. They basically said yes to the following proposition:

"Hi, for zero or minimal compensation, we'd like to strap you into a stranger's car who may or may not have any idea what they are doing and you can ride along as they go 100 mph+. You in?"

Looks like I am going to sell the car as a parts car. What would be a fair price?

KrazyK

This is an issue I brought up several months ago with all you track guys. Very sorry to hear that your insurance wont cover, which I would assume not. Glad your OK. Looks like no airbag deployment which is not surprising from how you described it.

If there is a lien on vehicle, you may have some options.

5CHN3LL

You definitely want to use that third picture for the eBay "For Sale" listing.

Just kidding. Wow, what a stunning wreck. Glad you and the instructor walked away.

porrsha

I agree with you.

You have to be kidding me here. A street car doing 95 MPH rolls and both people walk away. I am not a PE, ME, etc but the load force of a 2300 lb vehicle at that speed would shear the roof off of most cars.

KrazyK

Sometimes its amazing that people walk away from destroyed vehicles (I think its closer to 3200 lbs.). Others die in what seem to be barely damaged vehicles. Its all about direction of force and impact trauma.

Im not going to point any fingers. Ive destroyed two in my career. Thankfully 20 years apart and walked away both times.

RamVA

If you're going to cancel your insurance cancel your reigstration first.

Before you do either of those things or call the insurance company, carefully read your policy. Every insurance company has dozens of variations, and you cannot get a reliable answer from talking to them. You may be out of luck, but many times the language only excludes racing, or competition, or timed events, etc. Many policies are silent on it, but representatives of the company don't know any better.

If it's not explicitly excluded the company may try to deny your claim, and I believe you should fight them. You will likely win, and then they will likely pay you then drop you.

Good luck, feel better.

nick49

Glad you were able to sleep in your own bed that night. That was always my goal every motorcycle race day over 8 years.

You may ask an attorney to review your policy if you cannot find any exclusions for your specific activities. As I remember it was worded something like "closed course competition events". If your activity was "Driver Education" also having an instructor on board, it may be different than "racing".

RF5BPilot

I agree, read the policy carefully (having been an insurance underwriter & licensed agent).

You may find that the policy excludes "timed speed events" -- which does not actually exclude PCA Driver's Ed events--but would exclude an autocross (not that it makes any sense).

Just see how it is actually worded and hold them to their wording if it falls in your favor (it's my understanding that the courts tend to side with the party who did not write the contract if there are points of vague wording). Holding them to their contract is simply business....just as they would use the wording to deny coverage. No big deal. But, most likely, you're on your own.

ECS Tuning

Glad to see you walked away from the accident and no one was hurt. Sorry for your loss. I would first remove the wheels and sell them separate if you can. What is the mileage? Does the engine still run or was there damage?

roadsession

Here's an article re: track insurance

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/au...SURE.html?_r=0

Hardback

Glad both driver and instructor are ok. Who is your insurer? Some policies don't even mention track days or "Drivers Education". In which case you have the argument that you were not driving a timed event and you had an instructor in the car. Consider track day insurance from Lockton Affinity before your next event.

DreamCarrera

WOW, after seeing those pics, I'm glad to hear that you and your instructor are OK Miller. Sustaining a crash of this severity without the proper safety bells and whistles(roll cage, racing seat, hans device, etc.) comes down in large part to luck. Did the stock(street) seat belt hold you in place?

This is the conundrum we who DE our street cars face. Modifying the cars(halo seat, roll cage, hans, race suspension, etc) to make them safer on the track also takes away a lot of the cars usability on the street. However, tracking a unmodified street car at high speeds is very dangerous, make no mistake about it. For this reason I seldom do DE events anymore. I just wish I had the time and space for a dedicated track car.

Also, I agree with what many here have said about handling the insurance claim. I would make sure your policy does not specifically exclude DE events before even notifying your ins. company of your incident, let alone filing a claim. If your policy excludes a DE type of event, meaning your claim will not be honored by your ins. company, then there is no reason to even tell them about the incident. Why risk them noting this incident and labeling you high risk(which also may be seen by future ins. companies with whom you do business)..Good luck getting this all sorted out.

DreamCarrera

+1

But I think the weight is closer to 3,100 lbs. +/-...

5CHN3LL

I was tangentially involved in a crossover SUV rollover case with similar dynamics (the vehicle caught air and came down on the roof) - but in that case, the A, B, and C pillars all pancaked, and one of the occupants was critically and permanently injured. Although the A pillar shows a lot of deflection, it's a testament to the design of the vehicle that both occupants walked away (apparently) uninjured.

When I was tracking my Boxster, in the back of my mind, I always worried about what would happen to my head (I'm 6'2") if I caught a rut and wound up upside down. This thread really makes that question even more relevant... if I still had it, I'd install a roll cage.