911sanantone

I originally reached out to Flat 6 and L+N for product information by email. As the co-inventors of 2 costly options (Retrofit Classic vs. Pro) that a consumer is attempting to select from, one would hope that a consumer could obtain this information from a phone call or email. This was not the case and it is disappointing.
An indy is responsible for addressing all installation questions, not proprietary design questions.

When your 'general manager' called me (yes, left several messages before I was able to call back), he did an excellent job at explaining the services that Flat 6 provides and the beneficial aspects regarding sending my car to you (good employee). He pledged to forward further information by email regarding your various tiered services. I made comment at the end of our conversation that I was also considering having an indy do the service but had made NO decisions and would review what he was too forward. (sorry, Kool Aid consumer Imo000 ). Again, a very nice conversation. There was however no follow-up from him (which he said would occur). I did more research and I elected to have an experienced indy take care of the job and all is great.

My original reply above centers on my belief that creators (co-inventors) should be available/willing to address consumer questions that pertain to their products. That is a component of customer service.

We may differ on this point and that is fine. However, it is wise to take customer feedback seriously.

Thanks for co-inventing a great product.

Sneaky Pete

Guys....Flat6 offers a service. Take it or leave it. It's that simple. You may hate them but they are your best friend when you need them.

docmirror

Maybe, just possibly you don't understand what Flat 6 does. They are a full service Porsche shop. They also specialize in replacing the IMSB, and they are resellers of the bearing and related components from LN engineering.

So here's the rub. If you called me and asked me for my tech info on stuff I work on, and then tell me you are going to have someone else do the work with the tech that we also offer, I would not return your calls or emails either.

Here is the link to all the materials you'll ever need from LN: http://lnengineering.com/products/ims.html

Take them to your installer of your choice and let them have at it. There's nothing you deserve from the shop that does the IMS work if you aren't going to have them do the job and get paid for it.

BTW, when I get one of these cars, this is the first thing I'm going to do. Put it on a rack, drop the trans, buy and install one of the IMS bearing kits, repl the RMS, and maybe the AOS depending. I will not be calling a service shop and asking for repair info on the job, nor the proprietary engineering that went into the development. I thought I had some big brass ones, but it seems I've been trumped.

Cuda911

I gotta agree with Doc on this. His comments are 100% spot on.

And, I have to say, whenever anything regarding Jake gets posted here, he responds right away. Whether or not you agree with him is for you to decide. But, another vendor, who may or may not be in a link in my signature below, fails time and time and time again to provide any reply on the forums.

tdrimer

I am wondering about a specific pair of Nikes. Is it ok to call Nike and ask questions or because i plan on buying their product from footlocker then they shouldnt answer my questions?

Jake doesnt have to answer to anyone but it does help when the developer of a product can amswer some questions. And i am sure Jake probably does just that everytime he has to defend himself around here or respond to posts.

Not everyone has the time or ability to ship a car to GA to have it worked on. Not everyone needs to.

For what its worth. I have called flat 6
Several times with great success getting answers amd have used two of their bearings...so far with great success. Jake is an expert and i appreciate what he does.

Just my two cents...

911sanantone

Perfect analogy. I appreciate it.

Per the logic used by Imo000 and some others, one can ONLY call NIKE to ask questions about a NIKE product IF one decides beforehand that one is definitely purchasing a Nike product and only ordering from Nike.com. If you MIGHT purchase at Footlocker or you MAY decide on Reebok, don't even bother calling to learn more about the Nike products to make an informed purchase.

Now, I do strongly agree that a reseller and installer should not answer a potential customer's questions once the customer declares that he/she is going to purchase services elsewhere. ( I never stated to the Flat 6 'general manager' that I was going to an indy because I had not made any decisions about whether to do the IMS replacement, which bearing would be purchased and who would do the future installation! Further, the general manager clearly thought that I was still a potential customer because at the end of his call, he pledged to send me further information by email but never did.)

When I initially emailed Jake and L+N, I was reaching out to the co-inventors of a product. My questions were product related and had nothing to do with installation. As such, my expectations of obtaining information to be able to better compare the Classic Retrofit to the Pro were very appropriate.

In fact, Jake has kindly answered many questions in this forum and per nickdee62, Jake spent 20+ minutes on the phone with him. This is excellent and frankly, is what a customer should expect for a part that costs $750 + and installation that brings the bill to over 2K. I simply stated that I did not enjoy the same level of service. Plain and simple.

Jake provides insights and information in this forum, by phone and email to sell product and garner more business for Flat 6 (and that is absolutely appropriate). I suspect that many (majority) of the recipients of this valuable information do not send/drive their cars to Georgia for IMS replacement. So, when I simply stated that I did not receive the same level of information delivery, one should not defend it by saying that Jake is just a "reseller" of the bearing.

Docmirror's contention is that anyone who calls for product information or installation information has bigger brass ***** than him. Many of us are not able or willing to put the car up on a rack, drop the tranny and do the service. I think that most consumers who want to make an informed product purchase and an informed choice in their installers before spending hard earned money are going to ask questions. The smart consumer should ask any and all questions before dropping a single penny.

While the delivery of information was less than satisfactory, I was able to learn all that I needed to know from previous posts and kind Rennlist members. The Retrofit Pro, RMS,AOS, and a new water pump were installed by a local indy recommended by a Rennlist member. I could not be more pleased with my purchase and how the decisions were made.

I remain a fan of Jake and L+N's work to create solutions for the IMS issue.

Cheers!

Flat6 Innovations

Glad to hear that.

Over time I've learned that its better off to be the idea man that no one knows. Over the past several years several developments have been made that were mine, and no one knew it, and I am a lot happier about that.

johnireland

I sold my 993 back in 1998 and have been wandering in the wilderness ever since. Last week, after searching for a 993 or 964, I discovered that the 996 was the deal of the century. So I bought one. After hearing the warnings of the engine seals on the air cooled 3.6 it was interesting to see a world of fear now about the new engines. My 2003 C2 has only 39k on it but it still is eleven years old. I decided to stop worrying and enjoy the car. I bought a service contract that covers the engine and trans and fuel system for 3 years or 36000 miles. I consider it $2500 well spent and if stuff happens, so be it. In the meantime I am very very impressed with my 996. It feels much more like my '93 RS America (but with better steering) than my 993. And while I loved the more nimble shape of my 993...my new car is pure raw pleasure and I'm not sure I would go back to the earlier car.

Mercedes, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Ferrari, Porsche...each one is filled with legendary horror stories. But the pleasure of driving these machines is all about taking it one day at a time. For me, my 996 is now my daily driver.

And looking forward to reading all the posts here.

Sapientoni

If it costs $0000.00 to replace your clutch, why did you change the rear main seal? Trying to save $30? I have had RMS begin to leak 2 weeks after changing a clutch (928s4) It's common sense PM to change that bearing while you are there, and move on with your life. Particularly if your's is the type engine that has collateral damages. It may happen to only 1-2% of the cars, but if it happens to YOU, it's 100%!

An old redneck hillbilly once said, "don't give out no free information". I add to that by saying, let them do their own research unless they want to pay for knowledge.

Right on Flat 6, you guys are awesome and can't please everybody. Do you have any more of them VW shaped pacifiers to give as door prizes?

Vancouver996

I'm a mechanical engineer , I've worked on everything from komatsu and hitachi mining shovels worth millions of dollars to prat and whitney jet engines and VW beetles .

I bought a 996 last year with only 30000 miles on it , it got a l&n n bearing first chance I got .

No regrets ,
The most expensive bearing I've ever changed was on the worlds largest hydraulic shovel in the oilsands mines , It failed after half the expected service life .
The bearing was 6 foot in diameter and cost more to change than a dozen 991s all in .
We didn't scrap the shovel , we designed a grease injection feed and a harder bearing .

911 carrera blue

Jake answering phone calls in his khakis

88911coupe

Not to put too fine a point on it but EVERY failed IMS bearing looked perfect...at some point. Not sure why anyone would want to wait for things to start degrading and THEN fix it. I'd trust Jake on this issue...just sayin'

mikefocke

on their service options via email last Tuesday at 6:03 PM their time, I had a .pdf answer in my inbox in 4 hours and 40 minutes. They knew because I put it in my request that I wouldn't be a customer.

That said, given that they have developed 4 different bearing kits for a single row, I do wish their literature gave out more info on when and why it is appropriate to use a particular kit. There are so many kits available and so many claims it would at least help us sort out the differences between the ones they developed. I've told Jake this.

Flat6 Innovations

You'll note that what I provided you with had zero sales talk, it was all technical. Trying to sell someone what kit they need comes off as a sales pitch, so I don't do it. I have often thought about bringing back my Podcast to go over things like this, but that too, would also be too pushy. Why? Because I am confident in what we have created, and have so much enthusiasm for it, that the intensity comes across as too much for most people.

That said, not even publications will do this. Two years ago when a certain well respected write, wrote a piece like this for a well established, and highly respected periodic publication, when he was still their Technical Editor, and they refused to publish it.

As far as which kit to use, we only offer the IMS Solution (Yes, I do have a dual row IMS Solution for 97-99 cars) as it is the be all, end all for this situation. A true Solution to the problem. It takes us the same time to perform the retrofit, no matter which technology is being employed, so why not only use the best? Thats my outlook. I will say that doing this, costs us a lot of business, ONLY because of price point. So be it, I believe in he product that has my name on the US Patent.

That leads into the reason why there are different kits. It boils down to price, and price alone.

In the early days we couldn't get it through people's thick skulls that the OE bearing could even be removed, so then, the IMS Solution would have never sold. It looked foreign to the engine, and back then, people didn't really think the IMSB failure was a huge problem. You have to remember, at that time no one outside of our circle had even touched my IMSB extraction tool. Today its been knocked off by everyone out there, on 4 continents (was not patentable)

To say things have changed would be a huge understatement. Today everyone knows the IMSB can be retrofitted, and the posts on forums have changed from "my dealer says my IMS Bearing is bad, it can't be changed, and a new engine is my only hope" to I had my local Indy perform an IMS Retrofit using the LN kit, and I sleep better at night". To achieve that took 8 years. Thats right, 8 hard *** years of fighting everyone, as well as the copycats.

When you blaze a new trail, only the hardest of chargers wants to travel down it, while it is still smoldering.

BTW- I don't have any Khakis.... Greasy cut off came shorts is my typical attire.