DBA 4000 series T3 rotors
10-23-2014, 11:00 AM
#16
Instructor
I use DBA T3's on my E46 M3 for track days with HT10 pads. Front only.
Superb heat control and brake feel. Really impressed and will buy again. Show almost zero wear and have no problem hauling the car down from 140MPH to 60MPH lap after lap.
Superb heat control and brake feel. Really impressed and will buy again. Show almost zero wear and have no problem hauling the car down from 140MPH to 60MPH lap after lap.
10-23-2014, 02:42 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I never said cheap pads. :-) Just rotors. :-)
Not to be argumentative, but do you have proof? I have proof of using "cheap" rotors with no problems on the street. They are on my wife's MDX, years on my race car (although some issues), years on my track S2000, used on a TSX, many other friends used them. What I will say is that it is true that under high stressed track situations, the cheap rotors were not as good as better rotors. This is DEFINITELY true. But, for street cars, what proof do we have? Again, if you have evidence, I will definitely say I am wrong and back down.
Let me rephrase my thoughts... You definitely get what you pay for in some situations. Will I buy aftermarket non-DOT or non-FIA seats? No. Will I buy, things that are definitely proven and have enough evidence to cause a safety issue? No. In other hobbies I have (I used to race bicycles), to a point you do get what you pay for. But, sometimes, you are paying more for image than performance.
What I will say, that this upcoming year will be my first track year in a car that I will be going probably about 10-20 mph faster into braking zones. Once, the OEM rotors are done, I will see what is available. Will I go super cheap? No. Will I go OEM? No. I will find a happy medium. BUT, if this car NEVER saw the track or NEVER did canyon runs (I don't advocate driving reckless on the street), then I will probably go lower end.
Not to be argumentative, but do you have proof? I have proof of using "cheap" rotors with no problems on the street. They are on my wife's MDX, years on my race car (although some issues), years on my track S2000, used on a TSX, many other friends used them. What I will say is that it is true that under high stressed track situations, the cheap rotors were not as good as better rotors. This is DEFINITELY true. But, for street cars, what proof do we have? Again, if you have evidence, I will definitely say I am wrong and back down.
Let me rephrase my thoughts... You definitely get what you pay for in some situations. Will I buy aftermarket non-DOT or non-FIA seats? No. Will I buy, things that are definitely proven and have enough evidence to cause a safety issue? No. In other hobbies I have (I used to race bicycles), to a point you do get what you pay for. But, sometimes, you are paying more for image than performance.
What I will say, that this upcoming year will be my first track year in a car that I will be going probably about 10-20 mph faster into braking zones. Once, the OEM rotors are done, I will see what is available. Will I go super cheap? No. Will I go OEM? No. I will find a happy medium. BUT, if this car NEVER saw the track or NEVER did canyon runs (I don't advocate driving reckless on the street), then I will probably go lower end.
You can literally google brake disc failure and come up with thousands of sites and threads where drilled rotors crack at the drilling points. It sin't that much more expensive for name brand rotors but the performance gain is astronomical. Having matching sets of fronts and rear prevent domino fading of the brake system. The metals and their design of proper rotors can dissipate heat giving better heat cycles, longer reliability, and better stopping from mechanical/heat fade.
I hope I never get caught out on a track day with you. The fact you are willin to put sub-oem par brakes on your car to go track with... says a lot.
10-23-2014, 03:27 PM
#18
Instructor
Wow, I hope to be passing you on a track. Lol. No seriously, lets not get personal and just have a facts talk.
Lets clear up some facts:
On previous cars with non slotted or drilled cheap Taiwan rotors, I have no problems on the street. I used solid face rotors. I never have used slotted or drilled rotors. I think for street cars slotted or drilled is just a fad. Wanna be race car look.
On this car that comes stock with drilled rotors, I will not replace with drilled cheap rotors. I may replace with cheaper solid rotors. You are correct, cheap drilled rotors are dangerous and I apologize I didn't make that clear.
Lets clear up some facts:
On previous cars with non slotted or drilled cheap Taiwan rotors, I have no problems on the street. I used solid face rotors. I never have used slotted or drilled rotors. I think for street cars slotted or drilled is just a fad. Wanna be race car look.
On this car that comes stock with drilled rotors, I will not replace with drilled cheap rotors. I may replace with cheaper solid rotors. You are correct, cheap drilled rotors are dangerous and I apologize I didn't make that clear.
10-23-2014, 04:42 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Wow, I hope to be passing you on a track. Lol. No seriously, lets not get personal and just have a facts talk.
Lets clear up some facts:
On previous cars with non slotted or drilled cheap Taiwan rotors, I have no problems on the street. I used solid face rotors. I never have used slotted or drilled rotors. I think for street cars slotted or drilled is just a fad. Wanna be race car look.
On this car that comes stock with drilled rotors, I will not replace with drilled cheap rotors. I may replace with cheaper solid rotors. You are correct, cheap drilled rotors are dangerous and I apologize I didn't make that clear.
Lets clear up some facts:
On previous cars with non slotted or drilled cheap Taiwan rotors, I have no problems on the street. I used solid face rotors. I never have used slotted or drilled rotors. I think for street cars slotted or drilled is just a fad. Wanna be race car look.
On this car that comes stock with drilled rotors, I will not replace with drilled cheap rotors. I may replace with cheaper solid rotors. You are correct, cheap drilled rotors are dangerous and I apologize I didn't make that clear.
One of those photos is in fact a blank (non drilled or slotted rotor). I do agree that drilled/slotted for the street is a fad because you will never see those benefits without endangering lives. I missed your emphasis on cheaper rotors for the street. However your initial post said you ran cheapo discs on track cars which IMO is a big no no. I see no problem goign to an autozone and buying their entry level rotors for your sisters aunts cousins taurus. I do feel though however since the 996 BBK system was designed around having drilled rotors and is a performance car that you should stick to OEM quality/replacement quality type rotors. Thats like buying a powerboat and putting an econo prop blade on it and losing performance because the prop was cheaper.
I do believe cost per utilization between cheap rotors and expensive rotors evens out. The expensive ones last as long if no longer and give you a bonus in performance versus going with cheaper ones that warp prematurely (IMO) and can be a bigger headache.
10-23-2014, 06:04 PM
#20
Instructor
haha no worries. My post sounded a lot more aggressive than it was meant to be. Sorry about that.
One of those photos is in fact a blank (non drilled or slotted rotor). I do agree that drilled/slotted for the street is a fad because you will never see those benefits without endangering lives. I missed your emphasis on cheaper rotors for the street. However your initial post said you ran cheapo discs on track cars which IMO is a big no no. I see no problem goign to an autozone and buying their entry level rotors for your sisters aunts cousins taurus. I do feel though however since the 996 BBK system was designed around having drilled rotors and is a performance car that you should stick to OEM quality/replacement quality type rotors. Thats like buying a powerboat and putting an econo prop blade on it and losing performance because the prop was cheaper.
I do believe cost per utilization between cheap rotors and expensive rotors evens out. The expensive ones last as long if no longer and give you a bonus in performance versus going with cheaper ones that warp prematurely (IMO) and can be a bigger headache.
One of those photos is in fact a blank (non drilled or slotted rotor). I do agree that drilled/slotted for the street is a fad because you will never see those benefits without endangering lives. I missed your emphasis on cheaper rotors for the street. However your initial post said you ran cheapo discs on track cars which IMO is a big no no. I see no problem goign to an autozone and buying their entry level rotors for your sisters aunts cousins taurus. I do feel though however since the 996 BBK system was designed around having drilled rotors and is a performance car that you should stick to OEM quality/replacement quality type rotors. Thats like buying a powerboat and putting an econo prop blade on it and losing performance because the prop was cheaper.
I do believe cost per utilization between cheap rotors and expensive rotors evens out. The expensive ones last as long if no longer and give you a bonus in performance versus going with cheaper ones that warp prematurely (IMO) and can be a bigger headache.
I am cheap to a point... I just spent tons of money on a Raby Engine for this 996 that is more than the value of the entire car. Makes sense? No. But, I did because I want to enjoy the car. Will I buy the cheapest rotor? No. But, my whole point in this conversation was to bring to light that if you are using the car for the street, a quality low priced alternative may be ok, instead of something higher end. What is a quality low priced alternative, may have to be determined.
For me, yes, I will pick something mid-grade, but definitely not doing floating two piece rotor, etc. etc.
10-23-2014, 07:29 PM
#23
Race Director
Ask Lewis Hamilton what he thinks about exploding brake rotors. I don't think he's a fan.
A guy I've AX'ed with before doesn't bother replacing his drilled rotors as long as the cracks between the holes have not yet met up. I have wondered on several occasions what would happen if they met up at the end of a braking zone after an 80+ mph straight section...
A guy I've AX'ed with before doesn't bother replacing his drilled rotors as long as the cracks between the holes have not yet met up. I have wondered on several occasions what would happen if they met up at the end of a braking zone after an 80+ mph straight section...