Does magnetic particles in the filter means IMF failure
06-05-2015, 11:56 AM
#31
Race Director
The original Porsche designed filter housing has the oil bypass valve at the bottom of the housing. This can allow metallic grit, that has settled to the bottom, to bypass the filter under some conditions. IE: First start on a cold winter morning = thick oil/cold start/high rpm.
LNE has designed a "spin on" filter console that does not allow this to happen.
http://lnengineering.com/products/ot...r-adapter.html
LNE has designed a "spin on" filter console that does not allow this to happen.
http://lnengineering.com/products/ot...r-adapter.html
FWIW, even the oil diagrams show the pressure relief is in the pump area.
06-05-2015, 11:56 AM
#32
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The original Porsche designed filter housing has the oil bypass valve at the bottom of the housing. This can allow metallic grit, that has settled to the bottom, to bypass the filter under some conditions. IE: First start on a cold winter morning = thick oil/cold start/high rpm.
LNE has designed a "spin on" filter console that does not allow this to happen.
http://lnengineering.com/products/ot...r-adapter.html
LNE has designed a "spin on" filter console that does not allow this to happen.
http://lnengineering.com/products/ot...r-adapter.html
I had some free time to GOOGLE so:
http://lnengineering.com/spin-on-oil...ayman-911.html
http://lnengineering.com/filtermag-s...r-adapter.html
http://lnengineering.com/spin-on-oil...ayman-911.html
http://lnengineering.com/filtermag-s...r-adapter.html
Speaking of bypass, here is a good forum thread about the subject.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=309756
IMO the filter is there to try and catch particles and "filter" the oil. It's not there to catch everything and save the engine. I'm fine with it bypassing (although I'd like to have a light or something when it does) because then I know the engine is getting oil and the filter will catch the junk later when the oil circulates around again. I'm a bit leery of deleting the bypass as in cold weather and cold starts I'm using it quite a bit.
Just my opinion, and what I feel comfortable with.
Magnets are a good thing, could even fit something to the plastic filter body with epoxy or some other stuff. But again, they are there to help clean the oil and not to totally eliminate any issues that are floating around.
fwiw there are many old motorcycles still running around today that don't have a true oil filter. They only have pickup screens and oil changes, which works fine other than there is a little more wear on parts than with a filter. Also fwiw I blew up my motorcycle engine pretty good, cracked a piston and later had flames shooting out of a headgasket (lucky it didn't start on fire). Had a lot of junk on the sump, or maybe not a lot but a bit, and the rest of the components were fine for being 40-50 years old. I know these engines are different but it's not like you see some particles and all of a sudden the whole thing is junk. Now, the level of particles seen may or may not warrent further checking, but that's why you bring these to a good shop that you trust.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=309756
IMO the filter is there to try and catch particles and "filter" the oil. It's not there to catch everything and save the engine. I'm fine with it bypassing (although I'd like to have a light or something when it does) because then I know the engine is getting oil and the filter will catch the junk later when the oil circulates around again. I'm a bit leery of deleting the bypass as in cold weather and cold starts I'm using it quite a bit.
Just my opinion, and what I feel comfortable with.
Magnets are a good thing, could even fit something to the plastic filter body with epoxy or some other stuff. But again, they are there to help clean the oil and not to totally eliminate any issues that are floating around.
fwiw there are many old motorcycles still running around today that don't have a true oil filter. They only have pickup screens and oil changes, which works fine other than there is a little more wear on parts than with a filter. Also fwiw I blew up my motorcycle engine pretty good, cracked a piston and later had flames shooting out of a headgasket (lucky it didn't start on fire). Had a lot of junk on the sump, or maybe not a lot but a bit, and the rest of the components were fine for being 40-50 years old. I know these engines are different but it's not like you see some particles and all of a sudden the whole thing is junk. Now, the level of particles seen may or may not warrent further checking, but that's why you bring these to a good shop that you trust.
So, if I feel comfortable only with the " Magnetic drain plug", it sounds like I could just do that, right?...just to be sure.
06-05-2015, 11:59 AM
#33
Three Wheelin'
It's a level of risk vs low hanging fruit.
For those of us with manuals, and/or buying a car with unknown clutch wear, it may not be a bad idea to swap out the IMS and see what condition the clutch is in. Although on some models it's rare that one fails, but it can happen.
Plus, even though I said what I did above in another post, it is a better idea to replace wear items before they put junk in the oil...
06-05-2015, 12:06 PM
#34
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As far as the shop, well it's the first time I am taking it to them. This is an independent shop as was the one I was using before.
Recently an acquaintance of mine was impressed with the new shop as they were able to fix some electrical issues with a very old 911 that most other shops couldn't. I guess I haven't forgiven the first shop for scratching the leather on my then brand new car when they installed the roll bar and refused to accept it.
So, it is a new shop. So other than the one solid recommendation I don't have much to evaluate it by....but the mechanic who diagnosed the problem just works there, not the owner. The frist shop was owned by the mechanic and just one other helper (who scratched the leather)
Recently an acquaintance of mine was impressed with the new shop as they were able to fix some electrical issues with a very old 911 that most other shops couldn't. I guess I haven't forgiven the first shop for scratching the leather on my then brand new car when they installed the roll bar and refused to accept it.
So, it is a new shop. So other than the one solid recommendation I don't have much to evaluate it by....but the mechanic who diagnosed the problem just works there, not the owner. The frist shop was owned by the mechanic and just one other helper (who scratched the leather)
06-05-2015, 12:09 PM
#35
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06-05-2015, 12:27 PM
#37
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06-05-2015, 12:27 PM
#38
Definitely pull the sump plate. If no metal is found in there than you are lucky and everything is great. If there is metal in there than there might be damage already done to the bearings etc in the motor. Only someone with more knowledge than me should advise you what to do if there is metal in the sump.
06-05-2015, 01:32 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
However, the general consensus is that if your filter is clean and there is no sign or symptom of an IMS failure - meaning you are doing it preemptively and not reactive to something that you've noticed, then you're good to go. At least that's what my common sense tells me.
06-05-2015, 04:32 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Speaking of bypass, here is a good forum thread about the subject.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=309756
IMO the filter is there to try and catch particles and "filter" the oil. It's not there to catch everything and save the engine. I'm fine with it bypassing (although I'd like to have a light or something when it does) because then I know the engine is getting oil and the filter will catch the junk later when the oil circulates around again. I'm a bit leery of deleting the bypass as in cold weather and cold starts I'm using it quite a bit.
Just my opinion, and what I feel comfortable with.
Magnets are a good thing, could even fit something to the plastic filter body with epoxy or some other stuff. But again, they are there to help clean the oil and not to totally eliminate any issues that are floating around.
fwiw there are many old motorcycles still running around today that don't have a true oil filter. They only have pickup screens and oil changes, which works fine other than there is a little more wear on parts than with a filter. Also fwiw I blew up my motorcycle engine pretty good, cracked a piston and later had flames shooting out of a headgasket (lucky it didn't start on fire). Had a lot of junk on the sump, or maybe not a lot but a bit, and the rest of the components were fine for being 40-50 years old. I know these engines are different but it's not like you see some particles and all of a sudden the whole thing is junk. Now, the level of particles seen may or may not warrent further checking, but that's why you bring these to a good shop that you trust.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=309756
IMO the filter is there to try and catch particles and "filter" the oil. It's not there to catch everything and save the engine. I'm fine with it bypassing (although I'd like to have a light or something when it does) because then I know the engine is getting oil and the filter will catch the junk later when the oil circulates around again. I'm a bit leery of deleting the bypass as in cold weather and cold starts I'm using it quite a bit.
Just my opinion, and what I feel comfortable with.
Magnets are a good thing, could even fit something to the plastic filter body with epoxy or some other stuff. But again, they are there to help clean the oil and not to totally eliminate any issues that are floating around.
fwiw there are many old motorcycles still running around today that don't have a true oil filter. They only have pickup screens and oil changes, which works fine other than there is a little more wear on parts than with a filter. Also fwiw I blew up my motorcycle engine pretty good, cracked a piston and later had flames shooting out of a headgasket (lucky it didn't start on fire). Had a lot of junk on the sump, or maybe not a lot but a bit, and the rest of the components were fine for being 40-50 years old. I know these engines are different but it's not like you see some particles and all of a sudden the whole thing is junk. Now, the level of particles seen may or may not warrent further checking, but that's why you bring these to a good shop that you trust.
06-05-2015, 05:06 PM
#42
Ok. I am going to give you the definitive answer to the situation. What makes me qualified to do this. Well, I own a 996 and visit a lot of forums. But more importantly I had a failed IMS in a perfectly fine running engine. There was metal all over the engine. Due to financial reasons I didn't go for a rebuild, against the shops recommendation, and just got the magnetic drain plug and LN spin on filter adapter.
Several thousand miles later and many oil changes let I may have had more metal shavings show up. Everybody freaked out and made me paranoid like my engine was going to explode. So I bit the bullet and paid for a rebuild ( I know refresh) and guess what. Inside of engine was pristine
So replace the IMS. Drop the pan and clean it. Put in a magnetic drain plug and spin on filter. And then never think about it again.
Several thousand miles later and many oil changes let I may have had more metal shavings show up. Everybody freaked out and made me paranoid like my engine was going to explode. So I bit the bullet and paid for a rebuild ( I know refresh) and guess what. Inside of engine was pristine
So replace the IMS. Drop the pan and clean it. Put in a magnetic drain plug and spin on filter. And then never think about it again.
06-05-2015, 08:08 PM
#43
This keeps getting said but I never saw any pressure relief in my Boxster's filter housing. My tech sources tell me the pressure relief's in the pump and bypasses pressure back to the low pressure side of the pump.
FWIW, even the oil diagrams show the pressure relief is in the pump area.
FWIW, even the oil diagrams show the pressure relief is in the pump area.
06-05-2015, 08:29 PM
#44
The simple truth is many engines have failed and many have not and there is no way of knowing what category you will fall in. If you have metal in your filter it is a fact that something is failing already.
06-05-2015, 08:41 PM
#45
This keeps getting said but I never saw any pressure relief in my Boxster's filter housing. My tech sources tell me the pressure relief's in the pump and bypasses pressure back to the low pressure side of the pump.
FWIW, even the oil diagrams show the pressure relief is in the pump area.
FWIW, even the oil diagrams show the pressure relief is in the pump area.
Of course there's also the spring/plunger pressure relief on the oil pump itself.