Sanjeevan

Guys it's been a long time since I've been here. I'm sure everyone is sick of IMF failure threads. Give some slack to this guy who has been away for a long time but was an active participant on those days (RMS was the big deal then).

Anyhow....took my 2003 996 C4S which I've had from new with less than 30k miles (quite a bit of it on the track, so not necessarily a garage queen). They are saying they found a lot of metal particles in the filter and they are magnetic, therefore they've diagnosed it as a failing IMF.

Is this true?

They will replace the clutch when they are there and possibly the RMS if it's the older design. I know I had that replaced a few years ago to the new design, but don't know whether there were other version. Anyhow for all of this it is $3,500 here in Dayton, Ohio.

I am wondering whether the magnetic metals I the filter means impending IMF failure?

Thanks!

911661

I sure wouldn't risk it and you might even need to have your clutch replaced anyways so replace the ims for piece of mind.

Sanjeevan

Ok thanks. Do I have to look out for anything? Anything they need to do to minimize repeat failure?

P.S: Im fine if someone points to a thread or article on everything to do about 996 IMF...I don't mind reading.

porschedog

Speaking from personal experience, I can say that IMS worries will result in many sleepless nights and make you crazy every time you imagine the engine makes a suspicious sound. Go for an IMS upgrade and be done with it. $2k later, all is well(-ish).

Wor

911661

Make sure the mechanic has installed an ims bearing before and it will be up to you which is bearing you choose you have some options there. I wouldn't worry too much about the damage that metal particles have caused in the oil it is probably minimal.

Byprodriver

Then do a search & read! You need to see how much metal is in the filter & in the oil sump. Remove the oil sump pan & check for metal. Stick your finger into the hole where the oil filter mounts & check for metal, if any is there you need a new engine & different shop.

Chiamac

If it's new [metal in the filter], and I'm guessing it's new, it means that something has failed or has started to fail and it needs to be addressed right now.

Sanjeevan

Ok thanks....They are using LN engineering IMS

Sanjeevan

Wow! r u serious...so the engine could already be gone without it being obvious...in which case I could replace the IMS and the engine could still blow?

Chiamac

It really depends on how much of that junk got past the filter and for how long.

IMO


Had one of the owners at my shop tell me his 996 did the same thing. Drove it one summer, put it away for the winter, and had a bunch of metal or sheen in the filter when he went to change it that spring which was when he wanted to change the IMS anyway. He didn't sound overly concerned about it as the condition wasn't there for the last change, and the bearing didn't totally fall apart although he said it was bad.

I personally wouldn't drive it or start it if I didn't have to at this point.

Sanjeevan

You put the scare in me and I called the shop.

They are saying there's no chance for the engine to be damaged. Apparantly it's the outer casing and not the ball bearing that shaves off metal and shows up in the filter. So, they are saying it's just very small metal particles form the outer casing and there's no damage to the engine.

5CHN3LL

I realize the M96 is expensive to fix, but expecting the International Monetary Fund to fail because of one bad oil change might be overreacting... heh. IMF. Heh.

Sanjeevan, do you have a photo of what the shop is describing? It is hard to imagine that you can make an informed decision on how to proceed when you're working from a sketchy description like "a lot of particles."

The "outer casing" of the bearing does not move - any metal being shed is the result of the inside of the bearing and/or the ***** flaking apart. Since the OEM bearing is sealed, the appearance of bearing material also means that the seal has been compromised, so at least some of the bearing material is being carried throughout the engine.

If there really is "a lot" of metal floating around in your engine, slapping a new bearing on the intermediate shaft won't change that reality. However, some 996 owners see two tiny flecks of silver on the filter element and freak out. Without objective information on how much metal was seen and the condition of the bearing when it is removed, it's impossible to tell if your car needs more work or if it's ready to run 50K more miles...

I don't think you need to freak out, but I do think you should get some additional information, including a visual inspection of the metal that was found and a look at the sump plate, before you drop $3,500. I hate burning money, so I'd far rather pay the extra $100 in labor to drop and inspect the sump plate before spending $3,500 on repairs.

Sanjeevan

I went to the shop, they had removed the filter and spread it out. With a flash light I could tell there were multiple tiny metal specks (less than 1mm). I would say may be at least one in each fold, so not like the filter was filled with it. They were like shiny dots.

Anyhow, I told then to go ahead with it. It is $2750, plus $750 for the clutch assembly as needed.

What will the sump plate tell me that is more definitive? Ah! it looks like there will be more particles there. It looks like checking the sump plate will be a different procedure all together with additional money, I might as well just get it changed.

5CHN3LL

That's a good sign - at least it's a small amount of material.

If they do pull the sump plate, be sure there is no debris in the oil pick-up tube. Sometimes, sealant and other crap can gum up the pickup.

If you are proceeding with the IMSB retrofit, please take a few steps to try to reduce the amount of material still circulating in your engine:

* Add a magnetic drain plug.
* Add a spin-on filter adapter, and slap a filtermag on your new filter.
* More frequent oil change(s) after the retrofit

I'd install the spin-on adapter, filtermag and magnetic plug NOW to reduce the amount of ferrous material from recirculating throughout the engine. The spin-on filter adapter, in addition to allowing you to use standard filters compatible with a filtermag, will reduce the chance of particulate-laden oil bypassing filtration.

Good luck - keep us posted on how things go. Once you have the old bearing in hand, let us know how it feels/looks...

It's good to hear that your filter did not look like this:

KrazyK

I was thinking the same thing.


But, seriously, if you don't properly qualify that engine for IMSB retrofit, you may have wasted your money. Read JR's many posts about this.