Flat6 Innovations

I smell an engine here that would have failed a ore qualification if a Certified Installer was doing the retrofit.

Each and every IMS Solution comes with the paperwork that we designed for tracking purposes. This registration form is to be sent in with a series of photos and the old IMS Bearing, where it will join a data base.

The only issue is the only shops that send these back are those who are Certified Installers, because it's part of their Code Of Conduct and the registration process.

We have no control over what other shops do, but I will state that hardly any bearings are returned from non- certified installers.

Ben Z

This is just something I've been wondering about...

I understand the absolute need to prequalify an engine for retrofit with an open bearing because it depends on splash/immersion lubrication, and tiny particles of debris will get in and chew it up.

But The Solution gets its lubrication off of your spin-on filter adapter which never allows any oil to bypass filtration, so why is prequalification so urgent?

Sanjeevan

I was only referring to your claimed "black list" of VIN Numbers. There's no such thing is there?

dgjks6

I really, really should stay out of this. But...

First - reason for prequalification - if there is any metal in the engine, it can get trapped there and stay there for a long period of time. You can trust me on this. Even after several oil changes. So if it is not all out, it can get to all parts of the engine before getting back to the filter and this can wear out all the bearings and cause a multitude of other problems and damage in the engine. But not always.

Second - never mind

alpine003

I think the point is even if no debris touches the Solution, it can affect other components which can eventually cause the engine to fail and for the Solution to be blamed and dinged for others mistakes. I'm sure Jake will chime in but I can see that kind of scenario happening.

Flat6 Innovations

Absolutely. I have a list with at least 50 entries on it where bearings were returned after a retrofit and found to be failing. We also have the VINs that failed a pre- qual, where the customer demanded them to be retrofitted anyway (non Certified Installers did these) and I have another list of those that were repaired after a bearing failed, but the engine was not pulled apart and properly cleaned.

These are the cars that have the outer IMSB races cut out with a Dremel and the bearing replaced.

Our Certified Installers will, from time to time catch an engine in the middle of a failure by only doing 1/3 of the pre- qualification process. They turn those VINs into us as well, along with photo documentation of the issues.

We can't protect ourselves and the reputation of the product enough. I am waiting for someone to have a failure post retrofit and say "I replaced a perfect bearing and it failed". Thats when I'll put the "ace" out of my sleeve and the fun will begin. It will happen. I called it.

You are thinking small picture here. Remember, material laden oil will take out the rest of the engine too, not just the IMS Bearing. We are seeing cylinders fail as a result of foreign debris routinely now, as an example.

The IMS Solution is the most tolerant of all technologies out there in regard to debris filled environments. That doesn't mean that it should be applied if there's a debris filled environment.

If an engine is retrofitted with anything, and then features a failure, guess what gets the blame? The most expensive component that was applied.

All of those reasons are why you'll never see me sell anyone, or any shop a component of any sort. I think it, develop it, and then I am smart enough to let go of it.

dgjks6

Wow has this thread gone in a few different directions.

I assume I'm on the list so don't worry Sanjeevan, if you make it to the list you will be in good company.

Sanjeevan

im not worried, but thanks!..... I'm sure in five years when I come back to the forum guys will be installing the IMSB in zero gravity facilities lined with gold, nothing else will suffice

I only posted my decision and pictures to inform the forum, I've made my decision after researching the issue and I am not seeking validity

KrazyK

I hope some of you haters now understand why I wrote what I did about buying another 996. Its great when JR validates what I say while I get nothing but grief from the less informed members.

Ben Z

Thanks Jake, makes sense to me, in fact it's kind of what I figured.

The funny thing is, when I had mine done back in '11, I demanded that the shop do those pre-qualification procedures just going on intuition that an open bearing would be susceptible to debris. Aside from checking the filter reservoir and the oil pan, we pulled the seals off the old bearing and found it still mostly packed with grease (at 31-32K miles, very surprsingly), and there was no oil to speak of in the IMS tube. My extended warranty requires 6mo/5000mi oil service, and as I only drive 6000mi/year, I've changed oil/filter every 3000miles since the retrofit. Maybe that's why my single-row LN bearing hasn't failed (going on 30K miles). When the warranty expires at 75K (42-43K on the LN) I'll probably get the Pro, as it would take me another dozen years to put another 75K on it, and doubtful I'll keep it that long.

JD ARTHUR

There are certified installers near enough to most owners that if a decision is made to install the "solution" or even the ceramic bearings why not use them. Do they cost more? If so how much more? To be certified the shop owner or mechanic had to attend one of Jakes classes, that alone is evidence that the shop was serious and wanted to do the best job they could, why not take advantage of that?

Flat6 Innovations

To be Certified, an installer has to attend classes and then those who impress us get an invitation.

Chiamac

What does the certification do for anyone?

I didn't check with your website, just word of mouth as to who was the best shop around here. I'm not even sure they did an inspection or not to be honest, don't care, they took care of it, I'm happy, and it's their reputation anyway not yours.

cringely

Don't know if it was an IMS failure yet. Had the indy dealer where I bought my 2002 996 install an L&N IMS replacement bearing as part of the purchase price. Engine grenaded 2 years later (Feb) with 20,000 miles since upgrade. Sold car as a roller, the buyer is in the process of a teardown and will let me know if it was the IMS or something else. Will post details when I find out.

Flat6 Innovations

Incorrect. If a component fails the buck gets passed to me, no matter the reason. The shop is just buying a part and installing it, if that fails, then, they just say its not their fault.

Certified Installers follow a strict set of guidelines and they quickly lose their certification if they make a bad judgment call, whether if it leads to failure, or not.

Everything is my fault. Of the handful of bearing failures that we've seen (none of the IMS Solution!) the shop has never admitted to any mistakes or bad judgment calls being made. That includes the shop that had a technician tightening the center studs with an impact wrench, leading to both the bearings he retrofitted(Classic Single Row) failing within 300 miles of install.

The Certiified Installer has a lot to lose, so they take each installation seriously.