tune difference after mods?
04-27-2017, 11:41 PM
#16
Race Car
The CLA45 we have is also faster but doesn't get kids taking photos of it on the highway like the 996 does haha, nor does the driving experience compare to the 996...
I'm curious about a flash tune as well as i'd like to add 200cel x-pipe and headers but wonder if I'd need a tune if I had these. My car already has IPD 74mm, cargraphic mufflers and a cargraphic under drive pulley.
Hurmmm
I'm curious about a flash tune as well as i'd like to add 200cel x-pipe and headers but wonder if I'd need a tune if I had these. My car already has IPD 74mm, cargraphic mufflers and a cargraphic under drive pulley.
Hurmmm
04-28-2017, 07:57 AM
#17
the advice I got from the greats around here during my upgrade in displacement was NOT to tune the car. The porsche ECU could easily handle it and most tuners would do more bad than good to the car. if the ECU can handle a bump in displacement like that, I'm sure it would have no problem with bolt on mods.
04-28-2017, 07:59 AM
#18
The CLA45 we have is also faster but doesn't get kids taking photos of it on the highway like the 996 does haha, nor does the driving experience compare to the 996...
I'm curious about a flash tune as well as i'd like to add 200cel x-pipe and headers but wonder if I'd need a tune if I had these. My car already has IPD 74mm, cargraphic mufflers and a cargraphic under drive pulley.
Hurmmm
I'm curious about a flash tune as well as i'd like to add 200cel x-pipe and headers but wonder if I'd need a tune if I had these. My car already has IPD 74mm, cargraphic mufflers and a cargraphic under drive pulley.
Hurmmm
my stage 3 WRX would slaughter my 996 in a straight line. absolutely demolish it.
everyone still picks the 996 over it though.
everyone still picks the 996 over it though.
04-28-2017, 09:25 AM
#19
Race Car
the advice I got from the greats around here during my upgrade in displacement was NOT to tune the car. The porsche ECU could easily handle it and most tuners would do more bad than good to the car. if the ECU can handle a bump in displacement like that, I'm sure it would have no problem with bolt on mods.
04-28-2017, 09:26 AM
#20
Race Car
04-28-2017, 05:38 PM
#21
Former Sponsor
the advice I got from the greats around here during my upgrade in displacement was NOT to tune the car. The porsche ECU could easily handle it and most tuners would do more bad than good to the car. if the ECU can handle a bump in displacement like that, I'm sure it would have no problem with bolt on mods.
On a basic level, the car will run and drive ok with the stock ECU running a larger displacement motor. The MAF sensor will detect the engine is consuming more air than it would if it was stock, and it has a range of high load cells that will prevent the engine from running lean for the most part (many of these actually run too rich). The ECU has oxygen sensors and knock sensors to help it adapt, and at a bare minimum these setups run not _bad_ but also not really that great, either. The car is constantly chasing its tail trying to run correctly, which means that the sharpness, smoothness, and consistency of performance is not there. It works, but it's not a real solution.
However, changing the displacement of the engine has a major impact on performance. '100%' load on an enlarged motor is a different figure than it is on a smaller displacement stock motor, which factors into things like idle control, traction control, etc. The larger motor, whether the displacement increase was due to an increase in bore or stroke, will breathe differently with a given head and cam combination than the stock motor, which affects the VE of the motor and how it is fueled. The different bore size or stroke/rod geometry affects the relationship of piston position vs. crank angle, which affects ignition timing. Etc. etc, lots of complex relationships that go into the underlying ECU calculations that can't really fully be 'adapted to'.
We have seen people botch either the tuning or adaption of a displacement increase into another car. The first that comes to mind is a 986 customer I'm dealing with. He went from a 3.2L to a 3.8L motor built by one of the large, well known engine builders in the country. This builder went ahead and installed a 987 airbox in the car, and told the customer that 'it would adapt'. The 987 airbox has a much larger MAF housing than the stock 986 intake uses. The MAF sensor and housing together are an extremely precise instrument, and is responsible for the reading that allows the ECU to make all of its load calculations to run the motor. Changing the MAF housing without changing the MAF calibration in the ECU resulted in something that ran like garbage, if at all. He began working with another tuner, who found an OEM file for a special edition 986 than ran the 987 airbox, but they weren't able to get results with that. After working with him for some time, we figured out that special OEM software version was from a car equipped only with PSM, and his car did not have it. We finally got him on the correct OEM file with an OEM MAF calibration to work with the airbox his engine builder blindly threw at the car, and with a proper tune to go with it on the 3.8L engine, the car runs awesome finally.
Sam
05-01-2017, 01:20 PM
#23
Basic Sponsor
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I put a catless xpipe, GT3 TB, intake & IDP Plenum drove it for a while and then put the tune so I could see the difference. I dont notice any difference at all so I dont know if its done anything or not. I asked the company and they more or less said I wont see it because of the mods, ok good you took my money and asked which mods I have to tune for and now after you tell me that it wont do anything because of the mods.
So I am curious if anyone has done these type of mods and then did a tune afterwards did you actually see a difference? I didnt expect miracles based on what i read but really I cant say I see anything at all.
The other thing that seemed very strange to me is that the tune took less than 2 mins, every other car I have done these things on has taken much longer than that so it seems to me whatever is modified must be tiny.
So I am curious if anyone has done these type of mods and then did a tune afterwards did you actually see a difference? I didnt expect miracles based on what i read but really I cant say I see anything at all.
The other thing that seemed very strange to me is that the tune took less than 2 mins, every other car I have done these things on has taken much longer than that so it seems to me whatever is modified must be tiny.
__________________
Porsche Performance Specialist
John@Fabspeed.com
215-618-9796
Fabspeed Motorsport USA
155 Commerce Drive Fort Washington, PA 19034
www.Fabspeed.com
Porsche Performance Specialist
John@Fabspeed.com
215-618-9796
Fabspeed Motorsport USA
155 Commerce Drive Fort Washington, PA 19034
www.Fabspeed.com
05-01-2017, 06:04 PM
#24
I work with several customers who have been told this by various engine builders around the country.
On a basic level, the car will run and drive ok with the stock ECU running a larger displacement motor. The MAF sensor will detect the engine is consuming more air than it would if it was stock, and it has a range of high load cells that will prevent the engine from running lean for the most part (many of these actually run too rich). The ECU has oxygen sensors and knock sensors to help it adapt, and at a bare minimum these setups run not _bad_ but also not really that great, either. The car is constantly chasing its tail trying to run correctly, which means that the sharpness, smoothness, and consistency of performance is not there. It works, but it's not a real solution.
However, changing the displacement of the engine has a major impact on performance. '100%' load on an enlarged motor is a different figure than it is on a smaller displacement stock motor, which factors into things like idle control, traction control, etc. The larger motor, whether the displacement increase was due to an increase in bore or stroke, will breathe differently with a given head and cam combination than the stock motor, which affects the VE of the motor and how it is fueled. The different bore size or stroke/rod geometry affects the relationship of piston position vs. crank angle, which affects ignition timing. Etc. etc, lots of complex relationships that go into the underlying ECU calculations that can't really fully be 'adapted to'.
We have seen people botch either the tuning or adaption of a displacement increase into another car. The first that comes to mind is a 986 customer I'm dealing with. He went from a 3.2L to a 3.8L motor built by one of the large, well known engine builders in the country. This builder went ahead and installed a 987 airbox in the car, and told the customer that 'it would adapt'. The 987 airbox has a much larger MAF housing than the stock 986 intake uses. The MAF sensor and housing together are an extremely precise instrument, and is responsible for the reading that allows the ECU to make all of its load calculations to run the motor. Changing the MAF housing without changing the MAF calibration in the ECU resulted in something that ran like garbage, if at all. He began working with another tuner, who found an OEM file for a special edition 986 than ran the 987 airbox, but they weren't able to get results with that. After working with him for some time, we figured out that special OEM software version was from a car equipped only with PSM, and his car did not have it. We finally got him on the correct OEM file with an OEM MAF calibration to work with the airbox his engine builder blindly threw at the car, and with a proper tune to go with it on the 3.8L engine, the car runs awesome finally.
Sam
On a basic level, the car will run and drive ok with the stock ECU running a larger displacement motor. The MAF sensor will detect the engine is consuming more air than it would if it was stock, and it has a range of high load cells that will prevent the engine from running lean for the most part (many of these actually run too rich). The ECU has oxygen sensors and knock sensors to help it adapt, and at a bare minimum these setups run not _bad_ but also not really that great, either. The car is constantly chasing its tail trying to run correctly, which means that the sharpness, smoothness, and consistency of performance is not there. It works, but it's not a real solution.
However, changing the displacement of the engine has a major impact on performance. '100%' load on an enlarged motor is a different figure than it is on a smaller displacement stock motor, which factors into things like idle control, traction control, etc. The larger motor, whether the displacement increase was due to an increase in bore or stroke, will breathe differently with a given head and cam combination than the stock motor, which affects the VE of the motor and how it is fueled. The different bore size or stroke/rod geometry affects the relationship of piston position vs. crank angle, which affects ignition timing. Etc. etc, lots of complex relationships that go into the underlying ECU calculations that can't really fully be 'adapted to'.
We have seen people botch either the tuning or adaption of a displacement increase into another car. The first that comes to mind is a 986 customer I'm dealing with. He went from a 3.2L to a 3.8L motor built by one of the large, well known engine builders in the country. This builder went ahead and installed a 987 airbox in the car, and told the customer that 'it would adapt'. The 987 airbox has a much larger MAF housing than the stock 986 intake uses. The MAF sensor and housing together are an extremely precise instrument, and is responsible for the reading that allows the ECU to make all of its load calculations to run the motor. Changing the MAF housing without changing the MAF calibration in the ECU resulted in something that ran like garbage, if at all. He began working with another tuner, who found an OEM file for a special edition 986 than ran the 987 airbox, but they weren't able to get results with that. After working with him for some time, we figured out that special OEM software version was from a car equipped only with PSM, and his car did not have it. We finally got him on the correct OEM file with an OEM MAF calibration to work with the airbox his engine builder blindly threw at the car, and with a proper tune to go with it on the 3.8L engine, the car runs awesome finally.
Sam
Until someone can convince me they can successfully tune my car I will have to listen to the advice I was given. It's driving great now, so I don't want to mess with it.
05-02-2017, 02:59 PM
#25
Former Sponsor
I would love to get my car tuned for the 4.0 in displacement it has now but I don't know or trust anyone in the area with my motor. I know what good tuning can do to a car, especially with driveability. The very 1st thing I did with my WRX was get it tuned. 100% stock engine wise and the tune made a night and day difference in every department, especially in driveability. idle was more stable, power came on earlier and stayed on later, much smoother throughout the power band.
Until someone can convince me they can successfully tune my car I will have to listen to the advice I was given. It's driving great now, so I don't want to mess with it.
Until someone can convince me they can successfully tune my car I will have to listen to the advice I was given. It's driving great now, so I don't want to mess with it.
05-02-2017, 03:17 PM
#27
Former Sponsor
I don't have any contacts in Ottawa or Gatineau, but EK Performance in Montreal or Rombotis Tuning in Laval, QC are good shops who could assist in tuning if you pursued it. We work remotely with both, though Mike Rombotis does his own tuning as well and knows what he is doing.
Sam
Sam