Sun Ra

Checked speed at the brake point at the end of the short downhill straight on Stunt Road, for those who know it, today.

GT3: 118
GT2's 114
Tip TT: 120
TT: 115

same slow and posing driver. There is a nasty bump where one would like to be full power on at the start of the straight. Gt3 handles this slightly better than gt2. braking same but Gt3 is an easier lighter package to prepare for the hairpin under heavy downhill braking

uphill will be the other way i suppose. that manthey 500 HP GT3 would be gnarly!!!!!

Tyson and noel could add data points

JakeMate

I believe those speeds are illegal Watt

I'm telling.

Seriously.....it seems like all those speeds are too close to make any judgements, especially for a short section like that.

I'll bet the AWD helped on the nasty bump at the start compared to the GT's?

Sun Ra

keep your piece.

4wd does help but the gt3 handles well

it's a short spot but a very telling comparison. i'll be checking othe rkey spots

MetalSolid

I've never checked my speeds there...

CodeRed

Noel, that was alot of fun through the canyons this morning...are you going tomorrow too?

MJones

Why don't you guys have a shoot out at a safer venue
TrackQuest at Laguna Seca March 1 & 2
(nothing comes towards you)

MetalSolid

Richard, I'll be out on top of the world in the morning; not sure about the Malibu meet. Are you going?

Sun Ra

trackquest safe? i prefer a visibly empty road, or a private track day. in fact we were discussing it at Willow yesterday, how guys got run off the track at trckquest: 90 people, many scary unskilled strangers, at the track is not "safer".

macfly

Watt, interesting to hear that from you, I've heard similar stories about Trackquest being a little 'wild west'. I prefer a tighter and more formaly run track day. Driving Concepts are a really great group to spend a day out with. They also do the instruction for the BMW CCA, which is also a very tight day out, but alas you don't get quite enough track time with them, as there are always 4 run groups.

MetalSolid

R Gruppe? What kinda speeds were you seeing on the straight, Watt?

CodeRed

Try going to WSIR on the 8th. $250 for the day and there won't be that many people there. Email for more info.

Sun Ra

metal,
141 front and 127 back

Sloth

There are two DE formats. One format is structured with a few groups separated by experience while the other is an open format with all skill levels running together. I find the open formats have more track time but a lot more accidents. IMO, this is due to rookies getting the red mist or being pressured by more experienced drivers. The structured format gives less track time, but it is the only format that I run these days.

Todd Serota [TracQuest]

Watt - watch yourself. Thinking you're cute and insulting me personally (as well as others) on boards like this or list serves is one thing, but disparaging someone's business in a very public forum is quite another. You've never been to a TracQuest event and have no idea what they're like, how they're run or what my safety record is. But guess what? I'm going to tell you - and more importantly, whoever else is reading this board and now has a negative view of TracQuest events because of what you said.

I've put on over 40 DE events over the last 11+ years and in all that time, I've had about a dozen what I would call "serious impacts" - incidents where there was more damage than simply a bent wheel, cracked spoiler, marked up bumper, etc. There's never been an injury worse than a sprain. In fact, TracQuest has a reputation on both Coasts for putting on some of the best run, safest track events anywhere. Numerous people have expressed this to me and others over the last several years.

Regarding your "90 people" comment, of what relevance is that? Many of my events have less than 90 cars (sadly for me, but that's the way it goes), but the ones that have 90 are just about full because I cut off registration not far above that number in order to assure quality events - run groups that aren't too large and lots of track time. And fyi, 90 is a small event compared to what the major clubs put on. Many PCA, POC and BMWCCA events have 150 cars, and some even have 200 cars.

As for your "scary, unskilled stranger" comment, at any organized track event, many of the people are going to be "strangers." So what? Most of the people who come to TracQuest events are mature professionals with extremely nice cars who don't want to see them damaged. All novice group drivers are required to have an instructor until they are told they may go out alone, and even then, they're encouraged to "get it out of the way" and take an instructor with them the rest of time.

Finally, what's with the "guys getting run off the track?" comment. I've had one such incident in 11 years and it was the result of the combined poor judgment of a student and the instructor next to him. I can only control so much. Your comment falsely suggests that this is a regular occurrence, and that's a lie, plain and simple.

Bottom line: A DE event at a track is safer than flogging your car on a public road - period.

Macfly: I'd be very curious to know exactly what you heard and from whom. TracQuest events are of the structured type; I just don't have unnecessary rules that exist because of politics and/or ancient club history. My instructors are second to none because I pull from all of the different groups and personally select every instructor. Moreover, instruction is fully available to intermediate and advanced drivers because they need it as well; indeed, in some ways more than novices because they know enough, and have enough confidence, to get into trouble fast. Participants also get tons of track time as compared with any event other than a private track day or totally open track, and even in comparison to those, TracQuest events provide a similar amount of track time because people don't use anywhere near the amount of time they have at totally open track events.

Sloth: Fyi, my events are the structured type: 3 run groups (4 at Laguna due to run group limit rules imposed by the track), separated by experience and how fast people are getting around the track. Instructors are in most every car in the Slow group all of the time and in many of the cars in the Medium group. Still, my events provide tons of track time - usually at least 5 hours over the course of a two-day event, often 6 hours and sometimes as much as 8 or 9 hours.

mooty

i have been to many DE organizations including driving concept and traquest. driving concept has great BMW cca instructors, however, so does traquest. at tracquest there are not only bmwcca instructors, there are also pca instructors and quattro club instructors as well. it is a highly structure event no different than driving concept. to say they are "wild west" only shows you haven't been to enough DE to judge what's good or not.

as far as unskilled drivers go. what defines "unskilled"? short of schumy, andretti, unser, bell, and the like, most drivers are all "unskilled" and all benefit from coaching. if any of you feel you are skilled drivers, then you obviously are hanging out at the wrong forum.