New transmission needed on 2003 X50: Porsche refusing to cover under warranty - Page 18

mike_la_jolla · 02-15-2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dock

There is a window of opportunity for the dealer to make a warranty repair on a car that is tracked. That is different than your saying "if you track the car your warranty is void".

But that window is infinitesimally small. In my case, there was no window whatsoever, even if the damage that eventually caused the transmission failure may have occurred before I bought the car. I will note, once again, that this car was ‘Porsche Certified’, a nebulous thing that appears to have no meaning.
This ‘window’ you talk about does not exist. Porsche, through its representative here in Southern California, has made it clear that: TRACKING==ABUSE. Period. Warranty VOID.

Dock · 02-15-2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_la_jolla

This ‘window’ you talk about does not exist. Porsche, through its representative here in Southern California, has made it clear that: TRACKING==ABUSE. Period. Warranty VOID.

It's post #171 again...

Quote:

If you don't track your car and have a mechanical problem then the dealer will look for "abuse". If no abuse is found you stand a pretty good chance of a warranty repair. If you track your car, PCNA legally doesn't *have* to look for "abuse"; however, the dealer *can* still check for abuse and if none is found there is a window of opportunity for warranty repair.

The "window" that *may* apply is if the dealer doesn't find any abuse markers.

Berkley · 02-15-2006, 10:49 PM

I thought I understood the old certification program, but dealers do look at all data available to them?????. is the implication there the certified Porsche has suffered no detectible abuse.....prior to resale?

Dock like you I have always understood that tracking a Porsche voids the warranty, but a friendly dealer and a loyal customer sometimes work things out.......

Dock · 02-15-2006, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

... but a friendly dealer and a loyal customer sometimes work things out.......

Yep.

lexpro · 02-16-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_la_jolla

But that window is infinitesimally small. In my case, there was no window whatsoever, even if the damage that eventually caused the transmission failure may have occurred before I bought the car. I will note, once again, that this car was ‘Porsche Certified’, a nebulous thing that appears to have no meaning.
This ‘window’ you talk about does not exist. Porsche, through its representative here in Southern California, has made it clear that: TRACKING==ABUSE. Period. Warranty VOID.

If you had a certified pre-owned car that had a transmission failure, and you had not tracked the car prior to the failure occurring, I think Porsche would be bound under its pre-owned warranty to cover the failure. And that would be even if the failure may have occurred because the prior owner had tracked the car. The reason is that the CPO warranty provides you, in PCNA's words, "full peace of mind" about your used car. See http://www.porsche.com/usa/pre-owned...oved/warranty/

The whole reason to buy a CPO car is that the dealer inspects the car, makes necessary repairs and then that the car is sold with the representation from PCNA that "you can rest assured that your pre-owned Porsche is in perfect condition, both technically and visually."

Mike, your car may have satisfied these criteria when you bought it. But like a new car, if you use a CPO car in ways that are excluded from warranty coverage, you've got a tough argument to make.

cgeorgan · 02-17-2006, 08:51 AM

I have to admit, I read through this entire post - including the mind-numbing details which were carefully enumerated by several individuals.

I'm a first time Porsche owner, and I love my '02 996 TT. When I was younger, I saw a 959 in an automotive magazine and knew that I would one day own one of these fantastic automobiles.

That being said, I guess that I was (mistakenly?) under the impression that my Porsche was indeed a race car that I could drive on the street. I read Paul Frere's tome on the history of the 911, which only served to bolster my opinions.

These posts have all been disappointing. If it's true that Porsche builds their automobiles with the expectation that arthritic retirees will be using them as garage trophies, there will come a time when a young customer such as myself will seek true excitement from the likes of Ferrari or Lotus.

There remain few automotive manufacturers in the world who are committed to true performance. Prior to reading this thread, I was under the impression that Porsche was one of them. However, upon reading this intense debate, the seed of doubt has indeed been planted...

pedsurg · 02-17-2006, 10:44 PM

I never thought I'd be be quoting Doc but "Yep"

Jack

tkerrmd · 02-17-2006, 11:01 PM

Just checked, I think I have some "arthritis"!!!

JasonAndreas · 06-02-2006, 03:48 AM

Overload of dual-cone synchronization 1st/2nd gear
Symptoms; Grinding when shifting 1st/2nd gear, hard shifting 1st/2nd gear

The synchronization teeth of the gear have become rounded.

The synchronization components (synchronizing, tapered and friction rings) do not display excessive wear.

The teeth of the shift collar have become rounded, similar to the teeth shown in the first image.

If the damage described is diagnosed on a transmission, it is very likely to be caused by an assembly fault. This fault causes the gearwheel to become loose and therefore causing the "popping out of gear" condition.

This fault only occurs on transmissions up to the following numbers:
911 Turbo (996), number 6530 and 911 GT2 (996), number 2100

Michael Ontic · 06-02-2006, 02:01 PM

I have a friend here in LA who's '03 X50 trans got overly knotchey (hard to shift) but no popping out or refusals. The car was very low miles, under 5k, but was well into it's 4 year of warranty. Porsche put in a new box, no hassel.....it did have 1000's of rev violations ( type 2's unknown), has PSS( and roll cage.....no conversation about track time occured. My friend was very careful in developing his relationship with the dealer, but it was brand new as he had just acquired the car. He knew he need the dealers support to address the factory rep. Hope it all helps.

The factory put a new engine (complete module) in my 40k mile '02 TT too (over $20k) due to oil leaks. I really have nothing but positive exprerience with Porsche on legit. warranty claims. MK

JohnnyBeatles · 06-02-2006, 10:37 PM

Not that this will help much but being a car dealer myself(I have a Toyota store)I know the Toyota guy would never warrenty a tranny if he knew the car was raced. Now I will agree that Toyota has not much in common with Porsche and the fact that these cars are designed to race does make it seem strange. Toyota will normally go the extra mile but I can imagine that the Porsche rep see's raced cars ALL THE TIME and has been instructed by his boss to deny these claims.
We are all very gimme, gimme, gimme but the manufacture spend big bucks in warrenty. My feeling is you race at your own risk...Like i said when I owned a small lamp store...you break it you own it. Now if the tranny is faulty and broke because its crap well thats different but we all know thats just not true...
Anyway, sorry it broke...fix it and move on...
JB

mike_la_jolla · 06-02-2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBeatles

Not that this will help much but being a car dealer myself(I have a Toyota store)I know the Toyota guy would never warrenty a tranny if he knew the car was raced. Now I will agree that Toyota has not much in common with Porsche and the fact that these cars are designed to race does make it seem strange. Toyota will normally go the extra mile but I can imagine that the Porsche rep see's raced cars ALL THE TIME and has been instructed by his boss to deny these claims.
We are all very gimme, gimme, gimme but the manufacture spend big bucks in warrenty. My feeling is you race at your own risk...Like i said when I owned a small lamp store...you break it you own it. Now if the tranny is faulty and broke because its crap well thats different but we all know thats just not true...
Anyway, sorry it broke...fix it and move on...
JB

My car was taken to DE’s, which differ SIGNIFICANTLY from 'racing'. The fact that the 996TT transmission cannot handle this moderate amount of punishment is a serious black mark on Porsche, especially considering the manner in which they market the brand.

The fact that they refuse warranty coverage on what is obviously an underdesigned drive train component is worse yet.

JasonAndreas · 06-02-2006, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBeatles

Now if the tranny is faulty and broke because its crap well thats different but we all know thats just not true...

That's the problem, the gearboxes were put together improperly at the factory causing the "popping out of gear" condition. This is not something the owner is responsible for but owners are still paying for replacement gearboxes out-of-pocket when they should be covered under warranty.

BMo · 06-11-2006, 03:23 PM

This thread has been very informative but quite disheartening to a guy who finally has reached a financial station in life to afford his dream car (911 TT). I've been gearing up to get an '02/'03 996 TT, but now? Concerning is the weak tranny (especially since I'd be likely to mod) and the assumption by dealers that type 2 rev errors = abuse (what if I down shift too soon once or twice on the back roads?) and thus voids any warranty. However, most concerning is the new stance of PCNA in regards to its customers. Although I've always wanted to own one of Stuttgart's finest, most important to me is a car that kicks a$$. Perhaps I'll wait to see what the new Skyline, NSX or Supra (LFA) have to offer. Drag!

markski · 06-11-2006, 04:12 PM

I had my tranny replaced at 10K miles .. I was lucky- warranty covered( thanks FVD for the help).
I had the 2 gear popping out issue. Also, when launching out of the hole... it would not engage into second... stuck in the gate...
I had the b&M shifter at the time.

02-15-2006, 10:49 PM	#258
Berkley Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: A small horse farm in VA Posts: 975	CPO I thought I understood the old certification program, but dealers do look at all data available to them?????. is the implication there the certified Porsche has suffered no detectible abuse.....prior to resale? Dock like you I have always understood that tracking a Porsche voids the warranty, but a friendly dealer and a loyal customer sometimes work things out....... __________________ PCA member and Porsche owner, 35 years of fun with seventeen Porsches since 1973

02-17-2006, 08:51 AM	#261
cgeorgan Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 109	I'm disappointed I have to admit, I read through this entire post - including the mind-numbing details which were carefully enumerated by several individuals. I'm a first time Porsche owner, and I love my '02 996 TT. When I was younger, I saw a 959 in an automotive magazine and knew that I would one day own one of these fantastic automobiles. That being said, I guess that I was (mistakenly?) under the impression that my Porsche was indeed a race car that I could drive on the street. I read Paul Frere's tome on the history of the 911, which only served to bolster my opinions. These posts have all been disappointing. If it's true that Porsche builds their automobiles with the expectation that arthritic retirees will be using them as garage trophies, there will come a time when a young customer such as myself will seek true excitement from the likes of Ferrari or Lotus. There remain few automotive manufacturers in the world who are committed to true performance. Prior to reading this thread, I was under the impression that Porsche was one of them. However, upon reading this intense debate, the seed of doubt has indeed been planted...

02-17-2006, 10:44 PM	#262
pedsurg Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 1,278	I never thought I'd be be quoting Doc but "Yep" Jack __________________ '96 993 silver track '97 993 S guards red non track rennlist member #031205-4808 Last edited by pedsurg; 02-17-2006 at 10:47 PM. Reason: grammer

02-17-2006, 11:01 PM	#263
tkerrmd Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: tampa florida Posts: 3,258	Just checked, I think I have some "arthritis"!!! __________________ '02 996TT X-50 SPEED YELLOW GT-1R PCA#744 Cayenne S '04 Cayman S '07 SY ____________________________________ WWW.TAMPAVASCULARSURGEON.COM contact me by email tkerrmd@aol.com

06-02-2006, 03:48 AM	#264
JasonAndreas Technical Guru Rennlist Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Worcester Posts: 5,542	Overload of dual-cone synchronization 1st/2nd gear Symptoms; Grinding when shifting 1st/2nd gear, hard shifting 1st/2nd gear The synchronization teeth of the gear have become rounded. The synchronization components (synchronizing, tapered and friction rings) do not display excessive wear. The teeth of the shift collar have become rounded, similar to the teeth shown in the first image. If the damage described is diagnosed on a transmission, it is very likely to be caused by an assembly fault. This fault causes the gearwheel to become loose and therefore causing the "popping out of gear" condition. This fault only occurs on transmissions up to the following numbers: 911 Turbo (996), number 6530 and 911 GT2 (996), number 2100

06-02-2006, 02:01 PM	#265
Michael Ontic User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 43	I have a friend here in LA who's '03 X50 trans got overly knotchey (hard to shift) but no popping out or refusals. The car was very low miles, under 5k, but was well into it's 4 year of warranty. Porsche put in a new box, no hassel.....it did have 1000's of rev violations ( type 2's unknown), has PSS( and roll cage.....no conversation about track time occured. My friend was very careful in developing his relationship with the dealer, but it was brand new as he had just acquired the car. He knew he need the dealers support to address the factory rep. Hope it all helps. The factory put a new engine (complete module) in my 40k mile '02 TT too (over $20k) due to oil leaks. I really have nothing but positive exprerience with Porsche on legit. warranty claims. MK

06-02-2006, 10:37 PM	#266
JohnnyBeatles User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach, Ca Posts: 53	Not that this will help much but being a car dealer myself(I have a Toyota store)I know the Toyota guy would never warrenty a tranny if he knew the car was raced. Now I will agree that Toyota has not much in common with Porsche and the fact that these cars are designed to race does make it seem strange. Toyota will normally go the extra mile but I can imagine that the Porsche rep see's raced cars ALL THE TIME and has been instructed by his boss to deny these claims. We are all very gimme, gimme, gimme but the manufacture spend big bucks in warrenty. My feeling is you race at your own risk...Like i said when I owned a small lamp store...you break it you own it. Now if the tranny is faulty and broke because its crap well thats different but we all know thats just not true... Anyway, sorry it broke...fix it and move on... JB

06-11-2006, 03:23 PM	#269
BMo Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 131	This thread has been very informative but quite disheartening to a guy who finally has reached a financial station in life to afford his dream car (911 TT). I've been gearing up to get an '02/'03 996 TT, but now? Concerning is the weak tranny (especially since I'd be likely to mod) and the assumption by dealers that type 2 rev errors = abuse (what if I down shift too soon once or twice on the back roads?) and thus voids any warranty. However, most concerning is the new stance of PCNA in regards to its customers. Although I've always wanted to own one of Stuttgart's finest, most important to me is a car that kicks a$$. Perhaps I'll wait to see what the new Skyline, NSX or Supra (LFA) have to offer. Drag!

06-11-2006, 04:12 PM	#270
markski User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: chicago Posts: 328	I had my tranny replaced at 10K miles .. I was lucky- warranty covered( thanks FVD for the help). I had the 2 gear popping out issue. Also, when launching out of the hole... it would not engage into second... stuck in the gate... I had the b&M shifter at the time.