skremese

All,

I had my '01 Turbo to the dealer this week for 2 items - rough clutch pedal travel & notification from the instrument cluster that reading the oil level has failed. The dealer fixed the clutch pedal issue siting a bad accumulator. The oil level reading is proving to be more difficult.

The dealer, as did I, assumed the problem was the oil level sender. Once a new part was installed on the wire (but not in the tank) the tech tested the system and still saw a failure. He stated he put his ohm meter on the wires (assume he followed the details in the diag manual) and it looks like a short in the wire somewhere. Now here's the kicker - they state this is not covered under my CPO warranty (most likely) and that it'll be probably $1000 and up to fix as it's a lot of time to find the break in the wire.

Just for fun I removed the panels under the hood and looked at the wire bundles there as well as under the dash. There are soooo many! From the wiring diagrams it looks like the wires a Blue/Green & Black/Orange for sensor & ground respectively. I couldn't find them anywhere in front of the firewall. I was unable to see them (without dismantling any of the dash) under the dash.

So, does anyone know how these wires are routed? Does this at all seem plausible? Does anyone think that this should be covered (car has only been serviced at Porsche dealer and I'm the 2nd owner). Finally, wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to just run 2 new wires (this appears to be the only signal on these wires - it's a direct connection I guess and not a bus).

Thanks for any help,
Steve

Kevin

I wouldn't by the crap that it isn't covered under your CPO warranty.. A main interior wiring harness is $4,500 and it can take 4 months to get.

I would change gears here and take your car to a independant electircal specialist. There are 2 major wiring bundles that run front to rear. Before you write off the main harness there are multiple connectors between the sender and the gauge cluster.. Hence my suggestion of finding a electical company.

skremese

Kevin,

Thanks - my concern is that anyone that works on the wiring will most likely need to dismantle the interior of the car (dash, carpet, rear, etc). The frustrating thing is that it's only 2 wires (dedicated) for the sensor. I think it would be easier and cheaper to just run 2 new ones!

I'm still interested to know if anyone has seen a diagram that shows the routing of the wires so I can take some of the guess work out of this.

I also intend to contact Porsche regarding coverage of this because I don't see how they can warranty all the computers and other electrical items but not the wiring. Seems like if the wiring can fail in 26k miles then there is a design defect with the car/wiring.

Thanks,
Steve

Kevin

Steve you have to remember that there are multiple connectors. You have the 3 loom connectors on the right bulkhead in the engine bay. Then they split up, but most of the engine harness and related dash harness runs along the drivers sill plate. There is another major loom connector at the rear sill/base of the drivers side rear seat..

Is the gauge cluster okay??

skremese

Kevin,

That's exactly the kind of info I'm looking for. I have access to the repair & diagnostic and wiring diagrams. The dealer stated that checked the cluster and the oil level sensor and came to the conclusion (stated they used an ohm meter) that the wire is bad. I found the page in the diag manual that states how to diagnose what the culprit is. However, I haven't done it myself because 1) I couldn't get the cluster out and 2) don't have a short enough allen wrench to get at the bolt to remove the filler tube to gain access to the sensor wire (very tight in there).

Are you confirming that the wires for the sensor do in fact run through the connector behind the driver seat? If so, that would make it a bit easier to tell if the wire is bad in the front or back half of the car.

Any more info or insight you can give would be great. Do you know if the wire does run through the firewall (in the area around the battery) first, before heading to the rear of the car (wouldn't think so)?

-Steve

ebaker

Can you put a GT3 dipstick on it and just do without the oil level indicator?

Kevin

Steve;

Again, my first recommendation was to look at the connectors. You have to realize that the engine and all the sensors, injectors, and such have a disconnect. If you open the rear engine deck lid you will see the two round twist lock plus one small connector. You wire is in those connectors.. It goes thru the right hand side of the car thru a 3" round hole in the rear bulk head. The wiring harness then splits up. Again with multiple connectors prior to reaching the dash pod.

You tend to me leaning toward the front of the car.. I would be leaning toward the rear.. Heat, moisture, vibration..

skremese

ebaker - I'd actually be fine with that if there is a way to disable the indicator failure on the dash.

Kevin - thanks for the info. I will look from the connector by the seat to the sensor to see if I can determine approx location of failure.

Thanks again,
Steve

MK19

I completely agree w/ Kevin; 1) jam the dealer on the CPO, you paid for it and now it's there turn to make it right. If the dealer balks, ask for the factory's district rep.....take it to Porshe NA Atlanta if need be. But don't jury rig a nice car whatever you do. 2) the likelihood of a problem (open or short) in the middle of the loom is about 1/1000th of that of a problem occuring at a connector. It would be good to start by ID'ing the wires by color at each connector, locating the connectors, and doing the continuity checks methodically. Typical is an "open" circuit, meaning a contact problem, or a fracture at a connector pin/wire connection. But if you have a short to ground......you are looking for some kind of bridging, chaffeing or fried insulation. Not easy, but not tough. I recently had a female connector pin crack in two inside the plastic connector shell for the power seat (had to open the shell to find it, but started with a "where's the power" search that lead there. However, if your skills prohibit your ability to get the cluster out.....then you may want to hand it to a pro......LIKE the dealer who took your, or someones $$$ on the CPO warranty !!!!!!!

skremese

I found the diagnostic steps in the manual and had a chance to work on it today. I got the cluster out today and checked the wires with an ohm meter. I had a solid, nearly no fluctuation, 22 ohms or so between the cluster connector to the installed sensor. I had a friend wiggle the wires around forward of the firewall, under the dash and at the sensor in the engine bay. No fluctuation at all. The diagnostic steps show that I should get a reading between 18 & 25 ohms so this seems fine. This seems to indicate that there is not a problem with the wire or connectors, at least when the car is not on and battery is not connected.

I know this test is not conclusive as there is no power to the car. Step 1 of the diag was to test for a short to B+ but I read somewhere that the battery should not be connected with the cluster out as the ECU will lock up and need to be reset by the PST2.

At any rate, I'm leaning towards the cluster being bad which is the last conclusion of the diag manual if everything else checks out OK (no explicit test for the cluster). It's on page 90-17 (page 2) of the diag manual in case anyone is interested.

At any rate, I have to go out of town so I dropped the car back off at the dealer. I asked them to call me before they tear down the interior (past the cluster - easy to do) looking for a wiring issue. I'd like to hear the results of all diag steps.

If it come to it, I certainly will contact Porsche regarding this. Would I do this 1) through the district rep and 2) through 800-Porsche?

Thanks again to everyone.
-Steve

MK19

Good job Steve. No problem having the cluster in/out with power on.....I've done it without issue many times. Let us know the untimate resolution.
THX, MK

skremese

MK,

Good to know - I assume your car is a 996 Turbo. I only ask because the dealer told me today that if I had applied power to the car with the cluster out it would lock up the ECU and it'd need to be reset with the Porsche Tester.

At any rate, the car is at the dealer with explicit instructions to call me if the believe it's the wires. It's not that I don't trust them but they're insistent that I have to pay for the fix if it's the wiring. Based on feedback from others, if it comes to that, I will contact the district rep & Porsche.

Thanks again!
-Steve

skremese

Guys,

Well - I finally got a response from my dealer. They have acknowledged that my debugging of the problem was accurate, that it is not the wires and is the cluster. Good news and it's supposedly covered.

But here's the rub: the cluster in my car is apparently from a GT2. I bought this car almost 2 years ago from a bay area Porsche dealer and it was certified. My local dealer told me yesterday that Porsche would not cover it since it's not the right part for the car. Today he claimed that he went to bat for me with Porsche and they have agreed to a one time "good will" coverage of this $1800 part. Yeah. I find it interesting though that the cluster is not original, has failed in <27k miles and there is no record of it being installed.

Does anyone know if a new cluster has to be programmed with a PST2 or can anyone buy a new cluster and install it in the car?

Also - what is the difference between a Turbo cluster and a GT2 cluster? I always wondered why my tach didn't say "Turbo" across it. I just hope I don't lose any functionality or look...

-Steve