With VW taking control of Porsche, how long will the 911 last?

blueevo8 · 08-14-2009, 12:49 PM

Do you think the 998 will be the last 911? VW does not like having the engine in the back (they killed the rear engine beetle and bus.) and has made it clear through the past 40 years that they believe the rear engine car is antiquated.
Will we start to see a mid engine replacement or front/midship?

ltc · 08-14-2009, 12:51 PM

Profitability...
There is nothing in the VW lineup that competes with a rear engined '911'

However there are models which do compete with the mid engined Boxster/Cayman.

I think as long as they keep the Porsche brand, they will keep the 911...everything else is not a guarantee.

blueevo8 · 08-14-2009, 01:57 PM

I don't know, I think VW's board will axe it. They will give the "new" 911 like the "new" beetle.

Helios59 · 08-14-2009, 02:14 PM

It'll last as long as people pay for it!
That was true in the 1980s when Porsche first wanted to kill it, and it's true today.

MechanicalEng · 08-14-2009, 02:44 PM

if the 911 dies, Porsche will die

Hoosier_Daddy · 08-14-2009, 03:58 PM

"With VW taking control of Porsche, how long will the 911 last?..."

Forever.

Macster · 08-14-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueevo8

Do you think the 998 will be the last 911? VW does not like having the engine in the back (they killed the rear engine beetle and bus.) and has made it clear through the past 40 years that they believe the rear engine car is antiquated.
Will we start to see a mid engine replacement or front/midship?

As long as 911s with engine in back continue to sell well VW would be stupid to axe the model line.

Sincerely,

Macster.

jimq · 08-14-2009, 07:05 PM

then ours will be worth more money

palestar · 08-15-2009, 08:30 AM

There is no way VW is going to axe the mainstay of the Porsche line-up...

Mikelly · 08-15-2009, 12:02 PM

VW will not kill the 911. That is the "funniest" comment I've read in quite sometime...

Kida reminds me of the gossip in this one office I used to work in... people LOVE to Gossip about stuff like this...

Mike

funcars · 08-15-2009, 12:53 PM

I don't understand the gloom and doom people are spreading about VW and Porsche. The Porsche and Piech families just pulled off the biggest corporate take-over in recent history. Let's review the timeline:

1. Porsche and Piech families have a controlling interest in Porsche SE, which controls Porsche AG.
2. Porsche SE buys up 70% of VW, creating massive debt.
3. VW buys part of Porsche AG, paying Porsche SE enough to service the debt.

So now we have Porsche SE controlling VW, which controls Porsche AG; and the Porsche and Piech families are *still* in control of Porsche SE. Looks to me that this was a brilliant step-up from controlling Porsche to now controlling VW. The losers were clearly Wolfgang and Wiedeking. But I think we're the winners since Piech is a car guy -- much more so than Wolfgang.

I think we're about to head into the golden age of Porsche.

blueevo8 · 08-15-2009, 09:06 PM

OK here we go
1) Piech has thought the rear engine car should be put to rest since 1973. He has said many times upon leaving his uncle's employ that he never understood why Porsche was so loyal to the rear engine lay-out when a mid engine is far superior.
2) VW will run Porsche, when Piech is gone it will be run by a board of directors with platform engineering on their minds. The 911 replacement will share a midship platform with the next R8 and Gallardo. I don't think this is all the bad by the way.
3) Porsche will return to LeMans using an Audi sourced Chassis and TDI. They did it with Bentley, why won't they do it with Porsche.
4) the next Cayman/boxster will share a platform with the Audi TT. The motor will be moved up front. This could become the next 944/968.
5) the next Panamera will share a platform with the Audi A8 and Bentley Continental or just go away completely.
6) the Cayenne will share a platform with the next Toureg and Audy Q7.
Oh, wait it already does.

funcars · 08-16-2009, 04:22 AM

A lot of assumptions there (well, except for #6). And I'm not sure I understand some of the contradicting statements like: if Piech prefers mid-engine, why would he force the TT and Boxster to share a front-engine platform?

Since we're trying to foretell the future, here's what I see happening:

Porsche AG becomes part of the VW group and benefits in the following ways:
- Porsche can easily meet CAFE requirements into the future because of VW's small car/high mileage/high sales volume focus. No need for cars that make bad trade-offs for efficiency.
- Porsche will benefit from better engineering on the non-core stuff that they've never done great with. How much Porsche engineering goes into trim fasteners and metallurgy?
- Here's my fantasy: Porsche gets out of the truck and sedan market and concentrates exclusively on sportscars. Let others in the VW group build the bigger stuff.
The Porsche and Piech families, who still control Porsche SE and therefore VW, continue to run Porsche as they have for decades. Of course, now they also control the rest of the VW group... I haven't looked into if the balance of power has shifted with the recent transactions (esp the Austrian distribution company which was in the Piech family), but I expect that it has since Piech got to appoint the Porsche SE CEO (Winterkorn).
As one of the two majority shareholding families of Porsche AG and then SE, Piech has had ample time to kill the 911 platform since 1973. He won't try to kill a cash cow.
Yes Porsche will get back into real road racing. On their own platform. They won't have to make the decision of race vs. truck development...

blueevo8 · 08-16-2009, 09:32 AM

[quote=funcars;6819189]A lot of assumptions there (well, except for #6). And I'm not sure I understand some of the contradicting statements like: if Piech prefers mid-engine, why would he force the TT and Boxster to share a front-engine platform?

Because it whould much more cost effective to move the Boxster/Cayman to an established (in the VAG) product line. VW could keep the price down on these car's by sprading the R&D over an increasing product portfolio.

kaizashozay · 08-25-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltc

Profitability...
There is nothing in the VW lineup that competes with a rear engined '911'

However there are models which do compete with the mid engined Boxster/Cayman.

I think as long as they keep the Porsche brand, they will keep the 911...everything else is not a guarantee.

there are no vw models competing w/ those. not even a mid engine vw. r32 is their sportiest model, and it would get ruined on the track by a cayman s.

08-14-2009, 12:49 PM	#1
blueevo8 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: ottawa hills OH Posts: 61	With VW taking control of Porsche, how long will the 911 last? Do you think the 998 will be the last 911? VW does not like having the engine in the back (they killed the rear engine beetle and bus.) and has made it clear through the past 40 years that they believe the rear engine car is antiquated. Will we start to see a mid engine replacement or front/midship?

08-14-2009, 12:51 PM	#2
ltc Super Moderator (training wheels attached) Lifetime Rennlist Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: RL Moderator Bunker Posts: 21,211	Profitability... There is nothing in the VW lineup that competes with a rear engined '911' However there are models which do compete with the mid engined Boxster/Cayman. I think as long as they keep the Porsche brand, they will keep the 911...everything else is not a guarantee. __________________ ...Lewis

08-14-2009, 02:14 PM	#4
Helios59 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: MD Posts: 211	It'll last as long as people pay for it! That was true in the 1980s when Porsche first wanted to kill it, and it's true today. __________________ Rennlist member ID 090327-9998 1986 Euro Turbo-Look Cab "I have known a vast quantity of nonsense talked about bad men not looking you in the face. Don't trust that conventional idea. Dishonesty will stare honesty out of countenance any day in the week, if there is anything to be got by it." -Charles Dickens

08-14-2009, 07:05 PM	#8
jimq Burgled Rennlist Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Altamonte Springs, Fl/Gwynns Island, Va. Posts: 12,853	then ours will be worth more money __________________ jim *Conservatives....We work hard so you don't have to* 91 White C2 Cab tiptronic 03 Black 996TT X-50 Grocery getter 2002 Dodge Ram 5.9L Gas Hog Bend-Pak Scissor Lift 64 230SL Mercedes (SOLD after 18 years ) Some other Porsche's

08-15-2009, 12:02 PM	#10
Mikelly Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 969	VW will not kill the 911. That is the "funniest" comment I've read in quite sometime... Kida reminds me of the gossip in this one office I used to work in... people LOVE to Gossip about stuff like this... Mike __________________ No no, It's not me, it's the car...

08-14-2009, 01:57 PM	#3
blueevo8 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: ottawa hills OH Posts: 61	I don't know, I think VW's board will axe it. They will give the "new" 911 like the "new" beetle.

08-14-2009, 02:44 PM	#5
MechanicalEng User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Hunt Valley MD Posts: 544	if the 911 dies, Porsche will die

08-14-2009, 03:58 PM	#6
Hoosier_Daddy Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 358	"With VW taking control of Porsche, how long will the 911 last?..." Forever.

08-15-2009, 08:30 AM	#9
palestar Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cheshire, CT Posts: 9	There is no way VW is going to axe the mainstay of the Porsche line-up...

08-15-2009, 12:53 PM	#11
funcars User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 54	I don't understand the gloom and doom people are spreading about VW and Porsche. The Porsche and Piech families just pulled off the biggest corporate take-over in recent history. Let's review the timeline: 1. Porsche and Piech families have a controlling interest in Porsche SE, which controls Porsche AG. 2. Porsche SE buys up 70% of VW, creating massive debt. 3. VW buys part of Porsche AG, paying Porsche SE enough to service the debt. So now we have Porsche SE controlling VW, which controls Porsche AG; and the Porsche and Piech families are still in control of Porsche SE. Looks to me that this was a brilliant step-up from controlling Porsche to now controlling VW. The losers were clearly Wolfgang and Wiedeking. But I think we're the winners since Piech is a car guy -- much more so than Wolfgang. I think we're about to head into the golden age of Porsche.

08-15-2009, 09:06 PM	#12
blueevo8 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: ottawa hills OH Posts: 61	OK here we go 1) Piech has thought the rear engine car should be put to rest since 1973. He has said many times upon leaving his uncle's employ that he never understood why Porsche was so loyal to the rear engine lay-out when a mid engine is far superior. 2) VW will run Porsche, when Piech is gone it will be run by a board of directors with platform engineering on their minds. The 911 replacement will share a midship platform with the next R8 and Gallardo. I don't think this is all the bad by the way. 3) Porsche will return to LeMans using an Audi sourced Chassis and TDI. They did it with Bentley, why won't they do it with Porsche. 4) the next Cayman/boxster will share a platform with the Audi TT. The motor will be moved up front. This could become the next 944/968. 5) the next Panamera will share a platform with the Audi A8 and Bentley Continental or just go away completely. 6) the Cayenne will share a platform with the next Toureg and Audy Q7. Oh, wait it already does.

08-16-2009, 04:22 AM	#13
funcars User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 54	A lot of assumptions there (well, except for #6). And I'm not sure I understand some of the contradicting statements like: if Piech prefers mid-engine, why would he force the TT and Boxster to share a front-engine platform? Since we're trying to foretell the future, here's what I see happening: Porsche AG becomes part of the VW group and benefits in the following ways: Porsche can easily meet CAFE requirements into the future because of VW's small car/high mileage/high sales volume focus. No need for cars that make bad trade-offs for efficiency. Porsche will benefit from better engineering on the non-core stuff that they've never done great with. How much Porsche engineering goes into trim fasteners and metallurgy? Here's my fantasy: Porsche gets out of the truck and sedan market and concentrates exclusively on sportscars. Let others in the VW group build the bigger stuff. The Porsche and Piech families, who still control Porsche SE and therefore VW, continue to run Porsche as they have for decades. Of course, now they also control the rest of the VW group... I haven't looked into if the balance of power has shifted with the recent transactions (esp the Austrian distribution company which was in the Piech family), but I expect that it has since Piech got to appoint the Porsche SE CEO (Winterkorn). As one of the two majority shareholding families of Porsche AG and then SE, Piech has had ample time to kill the 911 platform since 1973. He won't try to kill a cash cow. Yes Porsche will get back into real road racing. On their own platform. They won't have to make the decision of race vs. truck development...

08-16-2009, 09:32 AM	#14
blueevo8 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: ottawa hills OH Posts: 61	[quote=funcars;6819189]A lot of assumptions there (well, except for #6). And I'm not sure I understand some of the contradicting statements like: if Piech prefers mid-engine, why would he force the TT and Boxster to share a front-engine platform? Because it whould much more cost effective to move the Boxster/Cayman to an established (in the VAG) product line. VW could keep the price down on these car's by sprading the R&D over an increasing product portfolio.