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Issue: The wheels carrier is around $600+ (997 331 111 07) and looks like a massive pain to replace... wheel bearing and all. Yikes. What do I do? Can a new bush and sleeve be pressed into the carrier? Can I remove the wheel bearing without a special tool? Anyone else have this issue?
The knee jerk advice on these rattles is to blame the sway bar links... but in almost 350K miles and 20 years of owning two Porsches, I only replaced links once. Mostly the control arms get noisy and they thunk. Finding which one is making the noise is not an easy task. So I purchased a set of Steelman Chassis Ears (about $100 on Amazon) to help diagnose the problem. This model of ears is the old fashioned kind with a wire from the clip to the switch box.... the kit comes with a ton of long velcro bands. Anywho, my buddy and I pulled the rear left wheel and placed these things around and then went for a drive. They are very noisy and while a dominant one will be louder, you have to pay attention. Back in the garage I removed the quiet ones and moved them around and went back out. Still no definitive source. Then my buddy had the idea of just shaking the car while in my garage. Wow! Rattle!!! He pushed on the roofline with the window down. At least we didn't have to drive.
So I pulled the wheel and reset the clips about 7 times, each time replacing only three wheel bolts hand tight... the suspension needs to be loaded.... so this went quickly. Not only did we isolate the sound clearly to the shock-wheel carrier bolt, but I discovered that when not loaded, I could twist the shock back and forth fairly easily with my hand. Darn... this is the source.
Now the reason for all of these thunks and rattles is a given bolt go through a steel sleeve that goes through a rubber bush all pressed into a hole in the component part. Given these parts take on some serious loading, the rubber breaks down over time and use. Then you get movement and noise.
BTW, the wheel carrier drawing in the parts Katalog is all wrong and doesn't even show where all the bolts go. The picture of the carrier below is from the Auto Atlanta website and note in the back right, you can see the shiny sleeve and black bush. This is the evil offender.
Advice?
Peace
Bruce in Philly
The diagram below from the Porsche parts Katalog is all wrong. The parts are all there with part numbers, but the wheel carrier is drawn just plain wrong and the lower control arm does not show where it goes (into the under side of the carrier).
Last edited by Bruce In Philly; 03-02-2024 at 02:29 PM.
I was hoping I had a photo of it when I did my suspension replacement but unfortunately I don't, and you're right the PET diagram is incorrect. There's no obvious part number for the bushing. I would replace the knuckle, but at 140k miles I would consider a low mileage used one from a breaker, which would save a bunch of work with the wheel bearing, etc.
Update: I just stopped at a Porsche indy... Zeigler's in Pheonixville, used to be Bill Boys shop... All really good guys there. I had them replace my PTX.. more on that in another post. While up on the lift we looked for that rattle... yep, the wheel carrier bushings are torn. These are where the shock bolts to the carrier. See pics below and you can see the tears... while I have clunking only on the left, the right side is torn too. Tom the tech put his crowbar in there and the thing moves all over the place... evil.
They guys described the work to replace the carrier... the bearings... and the spindle. Scary... I just may have them do the work. They have a special press/puller.... they noted that getting the spindle out is difficult and sometimes becomes damaged. Anywho... they are good folks, and Frank said I can order the parts off of the 'net and he will do the work. Not going to be cheap... book time just for bearing replacement is about 7 hours.... yikes! So.... I was planning on tackling this myself... at home but I think not now. Darn, more money tossed out... but hey, suspension parts at 150K miles go.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
In the pick below... it is hard to tell, but the bush should look all grey from dirt. Tom the tech has a crowbar on the other side and is pushing the shock "out" towards the camera and thus showing the cleaner black bushing along the tear ... should not be able to do this. The big member.. yeah we all have one! ... going left-right is the carrier... this is also the "hub" or "knuckle" and it the where all the business of the wheel is. the bolt is going through the bottom of the shock and the entire weight of the car (well at least the left 1/4) rests on this one bolt as the springs mount directly to the shock. The cars bounces against this bushing and is constantly crushing it.
Sorry to hear that Bruce. I’m with you on having the shop do the work. I’m a good wrench too, because I know my limits, and that sounds just beyond a DIY job. Keep us posted.
I am about to order parts.... so I am looking for some insights before I pull the trigger. So, two questions:
1 - Can I do the work myself?
2 - I think all I need is a carrier and new bearing.... anything else?
Regarding 1: I can do basic suspension work... I replaced all four shocks on my car... took me two days and alot of cussing but I did it. My buddy who works at Ford (engineer) who worked his way through college as a mechanic at a Jaguar dealership said we can press the new bearings in using a big vice he owns. He thinks I can do it myself. I then spoke to my Indy Frank Zeigler (purchased shop from retired Bill Boys .. https://www.facebook.com/possumhollowmotorsports/ great exotic car ****) and he thinks it is a bad idea for me to do it myself. He said I can buy the parts and he will do the work. He said he has a press/puller machine and the "axle?" needs to be pulled out and it is common to damage it when doing so. Another risk point is removing the ABS sensor. He noted his machine can press in the bearing without damaging it, and pull out the other parts. He said without the machine, you risk damaging the parts.
Regarding 2: I will be ordering two control arms just as maintenance... the car now has 150K miles and I have no plans on selling it. I am ordering the forward running lateral control arm (it takes acceleration and braking force directly to the forward bushing, and the commonly replaced lower control arm.. the one with three attachment points. Anything else I should order?
So..... any insights? Ideas? Pointers... beer recommendations?
So..... any insights? Ideas? Pointers... beer recommendations?
Peace
Bruce in Philly
everything is doable, if you have time - but i would pay for that work instead of taking chances of messing it up. just my 2c.
if you are replacing control arms you may use 996 gt3 parts there.
Update.... I just ordered the parts. Sheesh... this stuff is expensive.... and very oddly priced. My old go-to source, Pelican, is just not the price leader anymore. I have no problem buying OEM, non-Porsche labeled parts. For control arms and such, I tend to prefer TRW or one of the German brands common in the Porsche world. So.... using the Google.... I went all over the place. Rock Auto had great prices on control arms but I did not recognize the brands but it did not matter as I purchased EPS "upgraded" control arms. The bearings were.... I dunno... very odd as Pelican noted the Porsche-labeled unit was $103... but the Porsche dealerships with parts websites had the bearing for about $85. Really odd. There were no alternative, non-Porsche source for the wheel carriers... they are Porsche labeled.
UPDATE: I returned the EPS control arms and decided not to use it... some bad stories about cracking out there. YMMV.
Anywho..... I purchased from two sources: Vertex for the EPS control arms, and Harper Porsche in Tennesee (HarperAutoParts.com) for the wheel carriers and bearings. Every time I order this stuff, I find the 'net is driving all kinds of interesting seller behaviours so it pays... really pays... to use the Google. Vertex is an old, established Porsche source and always has good prices.. I have dealt with them in the past and have been satisfied. However, their wheel carrier prices were high but they carried the EPS arms and one was on sale for a stupid low $74 each!!!.... Harper is a real dealership but they never were on my radar before. I found Harper by using Google "Shopping" where I found a few sources for the wheel carriers... there were some cheaper sources but they did not appear to be dealerships... I went with a dealership for just a few bucks more than the lowest.
I was going to post all the prices from the various sources I scanned... but I dunno.... I will post what I paid for what I purchased. See the link below for the EPS upgraded parts descriptions. BTW, the forward. lateral control arms used to go on my Boxster all the time as they bear the thrust and braking loads directly onto a bushing. Same as the bushing in the wheel carrier... kind of a dopey design given the huge loads. To be honest, neither of these arms are exhibiting trouble... but... I don't want to do this again and the whole thing will be apart so...... and one was on sale for a stupid low price at Vertex....
I still have not made up my mind to do this myself.... but a Rennlister is giving me encouragement as he did it with his Turbo.... so I am leaning to DIY.
Man i have a tapping sound coming from front left, seems like it’s under the dash height, and not constant.....i know my long links to the sway are needing replacement too. I want some of those ears at some point. Entire suspension and mounts are fresh. Coffin arms etc are not.
Hey Bruce, why not just push out the busing and replace with a urethane two piece unit? I haven't looked for this part before but would a company such as Energy suspension not have something that would do the trick. That could also be considered a bit of an upgrade to remove that sloppy rubber part... allowing the strut to follow the wheel movement more precisely?
Apart from the added NVH, this might be the most cost effective way to go. With the right pusher you can get the OE one off in situ. I've even seen them removed using a hole saw to cut the rubber then a hacksaw blade to gently cut through the metal ring and pop it out.
PS: those steelman chassis ears are good, i've used the wireless ones too and there's a lot more interference. Plus they're easy to lose on the road
Bruce,
I have no affiliation ... but I keep finding that these guys have among the lowest prices I can find: https://www.porschemarinparts.com
For example, the wheel carrier (997-331-111-07) is $505 there.
Bruce,
I have no affiliation ... but I keep finding that these guys have among the lowest prices I can find: https://www.porschemarinparts.com
For example, the wheel carrier (997-331-111-07) is $505 there.
Good find... thanx.... they were not on my radar and they did not pop up in my searches. Unfortunately, my orders are all ready placed.... only about 10 bucks diff... shipping another variable.
Hey Bruce, why not just push out the busing and replace with a urethane two piece unit? I haven't looked for this part before but would a company such as Energy suspension not have something that would do the trick. That could also be considered a bit of an upgrade to remove that sloppy rubber part... allowing the strut to follow the wheel movement more precisely?
Apart from the added NVH, this might be the most cost effective way to go. With the right pusher you can get the OE one off in situ. I've even seen them removed using a hole saw to cut the rubber then a hacksaw blade to gently cut through the metal ring and pop it out.
PS: those steelman chassis ears are good, i've used the wireless ones too and there's a lot more interference. Plus they're easy to lose on the road
As I noted in my previous post, there are no bushing alternatives for the wheel carrier. I contacted a few places ... one then contacted their bushing supplier in England... the feedback was they make all bushings except for the one on the wheel carrier... something about too difficult and the materials broke down to easily. This bushing in the carrier bears huge loads. Regarding the other bushes, the lateral control arm is unique in that there is a ball joint in there and plastic collar... see the video above. So..... no easy alternatives.
08-18-2019, 08:58 PM
Suspension Rattle, Chassis Ears, Need Advice
