bantamben

Dropping my 05 997.1 3.6 for possible bore scoring or IMS issues.

I have a 997 coupe 6 speed that has loud piston slap on bank 2 and will stall once warm.

it shows misfiring on #6 and camshaft codes on bank 1.

I have gone through all the usual items plugs,coils, injectors, sensors leak down test etc.. It’s time to drop it and see what the inside of that engine looks like. Previous owner said IMS was replaced but not sure which brand, I’ll have to inspect it.

Ive decided to go with LA Sleeves, Steel wet sleeves. On a 3.9 build 100mm piston either Mahle or JE. Local machine shop I’ve been using for 30 years has done a ton a bunch of these m96/m97 builds using these sleeves.

plan on dropping it in the next couple days so may need some assistance if I get stuck.

if anyone has the camshaft and piston tools they want to sell or rent let me know. Or any other tools related to engine removal that I might need.

Thanks

rtl5009

Where are you located? And those don’t look like sleeves, all new cylinders.

bantamben

im located in Whittier California

the sleeves are wet sleeves the whole bore is pretty much milled out then the steel sleeves are inserted, with a step at the top similar to the aluminum sleeves that LN installs. These are steel though with no plating so can be over bored later if needed. Also I think they will be more likely to stay round compared to the stock cylinders. These sleeves also have some ribs built in which is supposed to help with heat transfer to the coolant.

Quadcammer

Id really reconsider the steel sleeves. For numerous reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum in this and the 996 forum, nickies are a better choice

bantamben

yeah I here you I’ve gone over it a lot. But for me I wanna give these a try I’m going to build this inexpensively on a budget and I don’t see any negatives to these sleeves. Also they cost about 50% the price of the aluminum plated sleeves.

rtl5009

these aren’t sleeves. They are entirely new cylinders. These cannot “slip”.

there are still metallurgical disadvantages to this combo, but you cannot make the same comparison to sleeves from a disadvantage standpoint.

werksmotor in Germany utilizes the same method and gets solid results.

rtl5009

Too bad you aren’t closer. I have all the tools to rebuild but I’m on the other side of the USA. NJ.

Petza914

Aren't there coefficient of expansion differences between aluminum and steel that could become a factor when putting steel sleeves into an aluminum block. Also, can the for be galvanic action between the dissimilar metals?

ZuffenZeus

Avoid steel sleeves in an Al block. Hartech, Flat6 Innovations, and LN have warned about this for ages.

lowbee

I am sure all of you have good intentions but the OP has done his research and decided to do steel wet sleeves so give him support or let him be. Who knows he might be giving us valuable data point one way or another

bantamben

I appreciate the hesitance as I’ve seen the same ideas about not doing it on this site. Theirs many reason’s not to do nikasil as well. Also aren’t spark plugs made of steel. I trust the shop I’m using as well they have sleeved thousands of cylinders over the last 50 years and La sleeve is probably the largest sleeve producer in the country in business for over 75 years so they have a lot of experience.

So I will continue to update on my progress and let you know if there is any issues or problems with this install hopefully it can give some more data points to the community.

I just think bore scoring or a partial piston siezure from my experience in operating big power plant engines for years is caused from 1 of 3 things Improper initial clearances for the designed operating conditions, insufficient oiling and overheating. Once the engine starts overheating past the design specs the tolerances can start to get to tight. Pistons can seize wrist pins can bind etc..

I’ve had engines have crankcase explosions at my plant from cylinders that get “bore scoring”
pretty dangerous although we have safety devices on the crankcase to purge the pressure. It can start big fires. The engines I run have 1200 gallons of oil in each sump.

I have a Tiptronic 03 911 as my daily driver right now. It runs perfect at 100k I’ve done track days etc.. on 90 degree days and the temps never get above 185f. I’ve checked the bores they look perfect and it’s dead quiet. My personal opinion is that because the tiptronic have a 3rd radiator it keeps the alloy cylinders more dimensionally stable and limits overheating. I think especially the Alusil can break down when over heated. The steel is more resistant to expansion so less likely to cause a siezure or bore scoring , but obviously with low oil or overheating can Definately still happen.

this 997 will replace my 03 once it’s rebuilt.

ZuffenZeus

I wish the OP well with this journey and hope that bantamben reports progress along the way as well as the good, bag, and ugly.

I think it's important to remind ourselves (yea, me too) that this is a technical forum and not an echo chamber. If I hadn't listened to opposing views, I would be on the side the road waiting for a tow truck.

God speed everyone!

bantamben

Jacked up the car today with these massive jacks my dad had for big trucks/trailers.

I can still go higher but I think this may be enough once the bumper is removed.

For those that have lowered their engine is this enough room?

Pictures with tape measures are to the top of table lift, to the bottom of the oil pan and to where I believe is the low spot once the bumper is removed.

Doug H

Holy cow dude, you need to do a little research before purchasing. Looks like everything you got is in the progress of being dismantled or will need to be . . . That 996 may not be far behind.

bantamben

Yeah the Bel air is actually in the process of being rebuilt. I’ve already had it frame off Rotisserie blasted and painted. Powder coated frame all new brake lines fuel lines etc..

I just need to finish putting it back together.

I intentionally purchased this 997 with a bad engine at what I think was a good price. I didn’t feel comfortable getting one that has 50-75k miles and could blow anytime. I’d rather build my own engine and have it be a little stronger. I’m 44 but have owned over 50 classic cars through the years so I’m always working on something. Ive rebuilt Mercedes mechanical fuel injection engines as all the way down to the simple mini A series engine.

I just moved into this house less then a year ago and we are in the process of a full remodel down to the studs. All new electrical plumbing windows etc.. so I got a lot going on.