Uncle Charlie 55

Hi all. Been looking for a while for a 911 in my price range of $40 - $45k. Found a 2005 Carrera S 6-speed manual (mandatory) for $39k. Looks great. Drives great. Kinda loud, but I don't mind that. Had a minor accident according to the Carfax that damaged the roof. It looked fine, and no other accidents were reported. I would be the 5th owner.

To me, the issues are it has 122k miles, and the IMS bearing has not been dealt with. The lot that has it specializes in high performance cars and the guy there said "If it hasn't been an issue yet, it won't be one." Sounds a little bull****ty to me, but this is why I'm here. Also, do these changes hands a lot or is that a red flag? The guy made a big deal about another 2005 I was looking at which only had 73K miles, but I would be the 9th owner. That sure seems like there's something going on.

So, even without the IMS bearing issue, is 122K a lot of miles for a Carrera S? I always thought that they pretty much ran forever with solid maintenance.

THanks for your time.

ATX_Native

Hard pass for me.

If you want to move forward, you need to confirm that the engine is a smaller bearing engine or if the engine was replaced at some point with a larger bearing engine.

Search the forums on engine serial number ranges and how to locate the engine serial number, there are lots of threads re: this.

That shop is full of it.

If it’s a smaller bearing car I would absolutely take care of that, the clutch and the RMS while you’re in there. You will be looking at around $3k-$4k at an independent shop parts and labor. If I were in there anyway I would personally do the IMS Solution so you take that item off the checklist.

So now your $40k car is a $43k-$45 car depending on what IMS you go with.

With a 120k mile car you will also need to start thinking about suspension and other wear items.

Another concern with the 2005-2008 997.1 cars is bore scoring. You need to have the cylinders scoped and clear pictures of said cylinder walls before moving forward.

If I were in your shoes I would wait until the middle of next year or wait for a good deal to come along, IMO this isn’t it.

A recession next year looks likely and prices are already starting to pull back.

Also, right now you could spend another $10k on top of this cars purchase price + IMS fix and get a much lower mile 997.2 2009+ C2.

This way you have no IMS concern and bore scoring odds go down by a factor of 20x or so.

If we slide into a recession deals might be available on lower mile cars without serious accident damage, as these types of cars are the first thing to be parted with for folks.

To bring some perspective to this discussion my search for a 997/991 took 4 months since I was looking for a manual.

Two bad PPIs and cars that got away, then on a random Tuesday I saw a 2009 C2 6MT with 40k miles posted to PCA Mart that morning for $39k. The cars I had PPId before were a 2006 C2S with 65k miles for $45k and a 2010 C2 6MT 991 with 55k for $53k. I also tried to PPI and buy another car but the dealer sold it before it could make the PPI the next morning, that was a 2009 C2S for $53k with 65k miles.

The 997.2 I ended up with was amazing. The seller brought it to a nearby shop and was easy to work with. We closed the deal 2 days later and the car was transported in an enclosed carrier to me a week later.

The point to this rambling story is take your time, there is always another car around the corner.

Uncle Charlie 55

Thanks for the detailed answer. The Carfax didn't note anything like an engine swap but his cavalier attitude regarding the IMS bearing had me worried. There is a Porsche dealer next to him that I was gonna try to schedule the car for. Add to that the car is still there and has been since early October. Then again the other 2005 with 73k and 9 owners is still available for 43K.

I'm in the Bay Area so prices are higher than just about anywhere else.

Thanks again.

Charlie

ATX_Native

If you want a manual 997 you might have to expand your search nationwide, I am in Austin and my car came out of Sanibel Island in Florida.

Also, my $0.02, Id rather buy from an enthusiast on Rennlist or PCA Mart over a dealer.

Some people check their morals at the door when trading in a car, sometimes hiding mechanical issues or deferring maintenance.

So when you’re dealing with an enthusiast or owner directly they are less likely going to hide something.

GL with your search!

88911coupe

ATX Native, is your comment regarding the likelihood of bore scoring to mean that it is less likely on 997.2 models vs. 997.1? Just wanted to make sure I'm reading the correctly.

SpeedyD

Odd year range to search. I assume searching either 997.1 or 997.2 rather than years.

Within 997.1 you will find some variation for IMS risk/solutions.

No meaningful difference across years for 997.2

I’d pass on the car(s) you mentioned. If you’re new to this, I suggest buying from a reputable Porsche dealer (and pay a “reputable” premium).

Petza914

Both my 05 S cars are large ims bearing cars, so it being an 05 doesn't necessarily mean the ims can even be replaced. Check the engine # as mentioned, but in 05, that's not a 100% guarantee which bearing is in the car. Only way to know for sure is to see the size of the nut on the bearing fland. Larger nut = larger bearing. I believe Jake had a way to do this without removing the transmission on the 05 cars. If you buy this car, expect to replace it and if when they get in there to do it, it's the larger bearing, replace the clutch, pull the outer bearing seal, and you're done.

Bore scoring is the bigger concern about with 997 1 cars. At a minimum you need to look inside cylinders #s 4 and 6 from the plug hole but they should really be scoped from the sump side.

It's tough to find a fully sorted 997 for $40k these days. Might luck into a base cab for that number, but values went up during COVID and haven't come back down much, especially for manuals.

gutenfreibier

As far as waiting for deals in a coming recession... A watched pot never boils.

At one point in time there was some wisdom on this board to the tune of "IMS bearings seem to fail at a higher rate in low mileage garage queen cars". So the seller may be parroting that back to you. I

f you like the color combo and options, it might be worth a PPI and taking a look at the engine number. As mentioned, there are always more cars around the corner. It's a matter of finding one you love, and can live with.

Nate R

All you need for the IMS bearing size is the serial number on the engine. Then you can google search it to see. Good luck!

frybear

FWIW, I bought a 2005 C2S MT Cabriolet in September of 2021 with about 55k miles on it for $42,500 from my mechanic. I did not do a PPI (moron) and according to the engine numbers, I have the larger IMS. I have not had the car scoped for bore scoring. If you're looking at a car this old and I see no reason why you shouldn't given your budget (like mine), just be prepared for maintenance, even preventative maintenance. I figured for the price I paid and the fact that this isn't going to be a short-term car for me, I'd start doing what needed and will be needed sooner than later. I've done the engine mounts, water pump, low temp thermostat, serpentine belt, starter, starter cable and replaced the suspension components (not control arms etc, just shocks and associated bits). Car runs and drives well. One thing you need to be aware of with at least a 997.1 is do NOT start it up and drive like a bat out of hell. The car needs to warm up to temp, 200 for my taste first, supposedly that staves off bore scoring or keeps it at bay. And on my car, I had a really bad oil analysis the first time I sent my sample in, really bad. I switched to Driven DT40 oil and an LN spin on filter adapter to use with a K&N filter, next oil analysis was shockingly perfect. For my car the oil made a huge difference and worth the extra cost for the Driven oil. And as others have said, don't let your car idle upon startup, get in and drive it.

groovzilla

"Kinda loud"? What do you mean by that.
Higher miles are not an issue with these cars IF the car has been cared for/serviced and garaged.
I am an advocate for higher mile cars and have had higher mileage 996's as well as 997's.
My current 2006 C4 has 107K miles and I bought it at 106K a year ago and don't drive much and keep it regularly exercised.
It is a great example, well cared for by previous Boeing Engineer owner and always garaged. It has full leather/Fister Exhaust/short shift kit and lowered w/H&R Springs and I'd think $40K is a fair price for my car.
W/18K more miles, accident history I think $39K is too high a price.
Important to Bore Scope a higher mileage car just to make sure it doesn't have Bore Scoring issues/burning oil especially a 3.8L "S" engine.

As far as price, I wouldn't pay more than $36K for a122K mile accident damaged 2005 997 manual transmission car.

997ajk

Base 997.2 > over any 997.1 - less issues on 997.2, base is as quick as S and cool updates that will cost $$$$ if you go with 997.1. Only downside is options on base vs S !


997.1 Carrea S 3.8 M/T
Power: 355 HP @ 6,600 rpm; 295 ft lb , 400 Nm @ 4,600 rpm
0-60 mph: 4.6 sec
Top Speed: 182 mph


997.2 Carrera 3.6 PDK
Power: 345 HP @ 6,500 rpm; 288 ft lb , 390 Nm @ 4,400 rpm
0-60 mph: 4.5 sec
Top Speed: 178 mph

TommyV44

To my mind way too many miles!! Others will say something different but those miles are a ton!

ATX_Native

Yes.

The odds of bore scoring in a 997.2 is low compared to 997.1.

Rennlist 997 Bore Scoring poll

PierW

Like most others here, I would not be scared of
miles if the car has been properly maintained. I have an ‘07 C4S Cab MT with just over 98K on the odometer. Had to do some basics when I got it in late ‘19, but over all it got a good bill of health after PPI performed by a local PCA technical advisor. The "needs" were outer tie rods, plugs and coils, top pistons, trans fluid and flushing brake system…but it runs like an absolute beast and puts a huge smile on my face every time I go for a spin! Prior owner had recently done clutch, water pump, AOS, starter and cable so I have little (hopefully) to be concerned with on the regular maintenance.

There are plenty of folks who have well over 150K on theirs with no complaints. Look for the history and PPI to tell you what you need to know. If you are flexible on color and whether it is a soft-top, you should be able to find something very solid in the $40k range. Good luck!!