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Came across a 997.2 in Idaho and the specs fit my requirements. The current and 3rd Owner had it for the last 7 years, showed me the car in detail via video, I spoke with one of the independents that inspected it when the owner purchased it, etc. On the carfax report way back in 2012 (during first ownership in IL), there is a huge red flag on the carfax report on 11/28/2012 that shows "Damage Report - Moderate to Severe Damage" (see attachment). There are no additional details. No mention of accident or anything. Shortly after that in January - the car was serviced at Porsche in IL. I called Porsche in IL and the service technicians saw absolutely nothing wrong with the car when it went into service.
I then spoke with the owner (he was transparent about the report and everything about the car in general) and he said he's had 0 problems with the car in the last 7 years. No issues, car runs perfectly. He showed me everything i asked for on a facetime video and supplemental high res video and there is no damage to the inside fender or any areas near the motor - literally nothing stands out. Listened to the car - literally nothing stands out at all.
This is not making definitive sense to me. Am I to believe the car had severe damage, was not totaled or branded, and was completely brought back up to spec a month later? Could it be that carfax mis-documented the severity of damage? What's the chance that the owner totally fixed the car under his dime (since the insurance reporting agency didn't post it to carfax)? Curious to your thoughts?
This is a tough one. Something repaired well could be very difficult to find by the average person. You could take the car to 3 different people and nobody will find anything. Then one day, something breaks and the 4th person finds something. Ask me how I know.
Also, Carfax is one of those things I love to hate. While I don’t trust Carfax for anything, and it’s possible they just misreported something, it’s more likely something was fixed at one time or another. You kind of need a detective. The other problem is that something that was fixed could be impossible to find until you have to start taking things apart, which probably doesn’t make sense.
One way to figure this out is to find out which insurance company was used at the time. While the insurance company would not want to disclose that info due to privacy reasons, you might get lucky and have a real human being on the other end that actually cares to help (and still shielding any personal info).
Last edited by Mike Murphy; 11-08-2023 at 08:12 PM.
The car was most likely involved in major rear end collision and Air Bags were set off. Car was repaired at decent shop so difficult to visually see any evidense of damage.
Not brain science here and sounds to me like you are another buyer making the big mistake of buying from afar and not seeing/driving viewing in person.(we get a lot coming here to ask questions)
Accident damage is ok IF car was repaired by high end shop and can favor BUYER who in turn can severly grind down asking price for a comfortable purchase.
Don't make the bad choice of buying a car without seeing/driving it in person like many buyers do then come on 997 FOrum and ask questions after.
**Schedule PPI & Bore Scope Inspection(with photos) review them w/Porsche specialist Indy or Dealer doing PPI/BSI & then schedule your flight to see car after you have confirmed with shop both the PPI & BSI are positive. Also make sure you have DME Report showing Over Revs(If Manual Transmission), Cam Deviation numbers & Fault Codes.
Last edited by groovzilla; 11-08-2023 at 08:23 PM.
Let's hire a Private detective...someone must be able to find something..and if the first guy can't find anything let's get another guy...eventually the truth will come out! LOL! So ridiculous!
You can only grind down the seller if he allows you too!
If the current owner is being honest, and has service records of his ownership I don't see the big deal. How the car has run for the last 7 years seems more important than a repaired accident or damage long ago in the past. If the owner agrees to having the car looked over by a mechanic you choose he is letting you decide if it's right.
many cars won't be totaled because the insurance co. don't like large payouts on a new 100k car, they would rather shell out a few k to repair.
The car was most likely involved in major rear end collision and Air Bags were set off. Car was repaired at decent shop so difficult to visually see any evidense of damage.
Not brain science here and sounds to me like you are another buyer making the big mistake of buying from afar and not seeing/driving viewing in person.(we get a lot coming here to ask questions)
Accident damage is ok IF car was repaired by high end shop and can favor BUYER who in turn can severly grind down asking price for a comfortable purchase.
Don't make the bad choice of buying a car without seeing/driving it in person like many buyers do then come on 997 FOrum and ask questions after.
**Schedule PPI & Bore Scope Inspection(with photos) review them w/Porsche specialist Indy or Dealer doing PPI/BSI & then schedule your flight to see car after you have confirmed with shop both the PPI & BSI are positive. Also make sure you have DME Report showing Over Revs(If Manual Transmission), Cam Deviation numbers & Fault Codes.
No need to assume my "buyer profile" Groovzilla - at least give me the benefit of the doubt. I'm just asking buyer focused questions given that i am new to ownership. If rennlist doesn't sway me with the responses, my next step is to have the fella take it to this shop in Boise (nearby) and have them do a PPI & Scope. Separately, i'll extend my planned Ca work trip the 1st week of Dec, to venture out to Boise and see/drive it in person.
That said, there's no detail on the damage in the report - not sure how one would even track that down at this point in time (10+ years after).
Let's hire a Private detective...someone must be able to find something..and if the first guy can't find anything let's get another guy...eventually the truth will come out! LOL! So ridiculous!
You can only grind down the seller if he allows you too!
I've done enough grinding for now and he's totally happy to get the PPI and scope done. Next call is to magnum PI
If the current owner is being honest, and has service records of his ownership I don't see the big deal. How the car has run for the last 7 years seems more important than a repaired accident or damage long ago in the past. If the owner agrees to having the car looked over by a mechanic you choose he is letting you decide if it's right.
many cars won't be totaled because the insurance co. don't like large payouts on a new 100k car, they would rather shell out a few k to repair.
That seems fair. To add, the owner is completely on board with doing a PPI and separate inspections - he's been totally open and accommodating. I'm surprised that a "moderate to severe" damage rating (carfax) on a semi-new car, did not result in a total loss. But, what do i know about how carfax damage ratings translate to repair costs hah. I'm somewhat also surprised that from the time the damage occurred, it only took a month to get the car back up to spec.
The owner, before he purchased the car, was also curious about the damage, had an inspection done which included an Elcometer pain meter test. He's encouraging me to do the same with the PPI and separate body shop inspection.
I'm convinced that he is honest but the dark cloud on the Carfax is the damage and there is no way it seems that I can track it down.
Take Groove's advice with a large grain of salt.
As you stated, you aren't the guy he's assuming you to be.
Caveat emptor- but your eyes seem wide open here.
7 years is an eternity in the life of a 12-year-old car.
Like a DME over-rev report, an event must be viewed from the perspective of "How long ago did it occur?"
Which is the beauty of a post 964 Porsche, the DME includes that info.
Range 5 ignitions a thousand operating hours ago with no ill effects in the interum is far less troubling to me than Range 4 pings recorded yesterday.
Same goes for a body or engine repair.
Look up @sandwedge 's experience with attempting to sell a perfectly repaired, absolutely gorgeous 997 GTS.
You are proceeding in exactly the right way.
Good luck.
Last edited by Liste-Renn; 11-08-2023 at 10:37 PM.
I think you’ll find that enough time has passed for any gremlins with the car to manifest.
it always makes me wonder about really old rare cars that have been ‘repaired/restored’ from the ground up, seems to make them more valuable.
with all that in mind, the market is the market and a car fax blemish does impact value. These cars aren’t rare enough to have to settle for a blemished one so the discount will be there. You might have to sell it some day too …
I think you’ll find that enough time has passed for any gremlins with the car to manifest.
it always makes me wonder about really old rare cars that have been ‘repaired/restored’ from the ground up, seems to make them more valuable.
with all that in mind, the market is the market and a car fax blemish does impact value. These cars aren’t rare enough to have to settle for a blemished one so the discount will be there. You might have to sell it some day too …
Great point and I will do my diligence when disclosing everything, if I move forward with this purchase.
Take Groove's advice with a large grain of salt.
As you stated, you aren't the guy he's assuming you to be.
Caveat emptor- but your eyes seem wide open here.
7 years is an eternity in the life of a 12-year-old car.
Like a DME over-rev report, an event must be viewed from the perspective of "How long ago did it occur?"
Which is the beauty of a post 964 Porsche, the DME includes that info.
Range 5 ignitions a thousand operating hours ago with no ill effects in the interum is far less troubling to me than Range 4 pings recorded yesterday.
Same goes for a body or engine repair.
Look up @sandwedge 's experience with attempting to sell a perfectly repaired, absolutely gorgeous 997 GTS.
You are proceeding in exactly the right way.
Good luck.
Thank you for the honest words and the read through of Sandwedge's thread! I'll do my diligence on this and I'll cross my fingers that it works. The best approach here would be to start with the PPI/Scope and have a 2nd inspection at a body-work focused shop (I've already selected one today). Once that is done, potentially fly out there on my trip and give it a whirl. If all checks out - i'm game to making an offer (with the black cloud over the damage worked in).
11-08-2023, 07:48 PM
Looking at a used 997.2 - questions on Carfax
