Bruce In Philly

2009 C2S 196K miles

Why no love for Ceratec when so much love for MoS2 (aka Moly)? As I understand the threads here, oil with Moly is very important. OK.... Driven has moly and the Porsche approved A40 spec does not. OK, Driven is better... got it. But adding Ceratec is ignored here or is considered inferior than Moly. As I understand it, Ceratec has both Moly plus their "new and improved" additive of ceramic particulates. These ceramic particulates are touted to have superior friction reduction properties than just Moly. It seems to me that those that like moly in their oil would jump on this as moly PLUS more stuff would be better. No? Why no love here?

I use Leichtlauf High Tech SAE 5W-40 a Porsche A40 oil and I add Ceratec. I wanted a heavier oil than 0w and Liquimoly is available in 5 litre jugs... and I usually get a 10% discount by ordering on line at Napa and picking up the next day. Hard to beat those numbers and what I think is a killer formulation.

Flame away!!!

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

BTW, Project Farm tested Mos2 and then later Ceratec and only Ceratec reduced friction, and reduced fuel consumption.

EVOMMM

I love and trust that guy his testing is always eye opening

jmanbball

Ceratec would be fine to add. The only issue is that one can of Ceratec is for 3-5 L, and our cars take 7-9 quarts, so you need two cans. Cheapest I saw was $28 at Wally World(aka. Walmart), so it would be $56 + the cost of oil ($80-90 for LM Leichtlauf), so you're getting really close to the cost of 9 quarts of Driven DT40. With the DT40, you're getting some nice esters in it too, plus a lot more Moly. Not a bad product, but doesn't make a lot of sense money-wise.

Bruce In Philly

I put in one bottle of Ceratec per oil change.... Liquimoly says that their ceramic stays in the engine... oh I can't remember but like a long time... and to alternate between Ceratec and MoS2 because you don't have to use Ceratec each time... so in my little mind, I use one bottle every time... I usually buy a few bottles if I am going to do Her car so I may add a maybe another 1/2 bottle, again if I am doing Her car too. My Blackstone analysis show that, with 5K changes, I have around 163 and 187 PPM of Moly in the effluent (is this good? bad? Remember there is additional goodness of ceramic in there too).

Yea, so I went and checked my last order at Napa... my discount was actually 20% (bad memory) obtained by ordering online and picking up next day. Two five-litre jugs of Liqimoly $76.78 ($7.68 per liter) Ceratec was $29 no shipping with pickup.... so $105.78. I just checked FCP Euro and added up to $102.87 (I think free shipping). Amazon was 126.73. I use the left over oil to top up Her and my cars over time.

I don't know the Driven prices and you have to choose a different oil for .1 and .2 cars... so maybe someone here can post those prices.

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

jbkusa

Interesting thread, Bruce. Subscribed to hear the braintrust’s thoughts.

CAVU

This might help in the discussion.

Petza914

Driven oil is $13- $15/quart depending on where you find it and driven does a 15%-20% off sale at every major holiday if you're an email subscriber.

DI40 is being reclassified as a 5w40 so both DI40 and DT40 are 5w40 oils even if the online sellers or literature doesn't show that yet. For a non-DFI motor if you want higher hot viscosity, then FR50 5w50 is the one for that and what I run in both my 997.1 cars.

The moly content from the Driven oils after 5000 miles is in the 450-500 ppm range in my UOA reports so still considerably higher than the 195 number you mr tion, and is that virgin content or at the oil change interval content as some Moly gets used up as the oil is run. These number are way higher than what you say you'd get with the addition of Ceratec - looks luke yoyd need 3 bottles to ebd up with content around 500ppm at the oil change, so now some significant percentage of what you've poured into your engine at the oil change is whatever the carrier solution in Ceratec is and your percentage of oil is lower.

I'm a believer in not adding external foreign substances into scientifically developed formulations as who knows if or how things react, whether it ever really becomes a homogenous solution, etc.

DT40 history from my Cayenne as that's what I had handy.

Bruce In Philly

Thanx for this.... BTW, that analysis of Ceratec came from Speediagnostix where they analyze new oils and additives where you can see what they contain... or don't contain. See here for more of their new oil studies: https://www.speediagnostix.com/new-oil-analysis

What may be missing from these oil studies, is they identify only the items that they are specifically looking for. Does anyone know what to look for when looking for Ceratec's ceramic component? "Ceramic" can be a whole host of materials and is a down-stream, made product of upstream ingredients. Anywho.... they show Ceratec does contain Moly.

But again, I will ask my question in a different way: So less moly is not as good as more moly, but doesn't the ceramic more than make up for it? Again, where is the love for ceramic?

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

jmanbball

The only thing I could think of that could be in there that could be the ceramic would be some sort of Tungsten compound. It's not something that is usually looked for in an analysis, but I have seen it in some Liquimoly products when specifically requested to to test for it.

Wayne Smith

Wow, an intentional oil thread ... courageous!!!!

What hasn't been mentioned here is LSPI. For 9A1 motors, the DI40 has (may have?) an advantage here.

I've got bottles of DI40 on the shelf to try in another 1500 miles (I want to go the distance on my OCI so that the analysis of the third dose of LiquiMoly is a valid comparison to the Mobil One I've used for 140K + miles). So I'm not sure if when I pour in the Driven oil I will need to shake it up to get the moly out or not. Since moly is a solid that does not stay in suspension (or affect the oil), if I don't have to shake the bottle first, what magic is going on?

And that brings up another question ... What is the fluid in the MoS2 can, and does that affect (or dilute) the oil?

cvalue13

Man - new to Porsche (incoming 997.2 CS), and feels like I have a lot to learn about oil/changes

And after I learn it, doesn’t seem I’ll feel too confident about the answer 🤣

Bruce In Philly

Honestly, I am disappointed in the lack of vitriol or provocative posts... oil threads are notorious for bringing out the worst in us... bringing out the closet chain saw murders et al.

You can follow your manual, increase frequency of changes, change brands, stick to the Porsche A40 or choose another brand like Driven (common here), or use an additive.

Oil is easily ignited, burns for a long time, and can leave scars. I don't know what you use or what protocol you follow but whatever it is, you are wrong.

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

Wayne Smith

Welcome aboard. Don't worry. These cars appear to be extremely reliable no matter what you do. A few tips ...

1. OCI (oil change interval) should not go over 5K miles. Some will say less than this. If Mobil One, intelligent members will point to shearing that reduces viscosity and this calls for 3K max.

2. OTOH, I used Mobil One at 5K intervals for over 140K miles. Never burned a drop. Always had metal numbers that were very low. As in Driven oil low, changed at 3K intervals.

3. When changing oil, measure level with the gauge first. Get a picture of the odometer for your records. Drain the oil, remembering to get a sample in mid flow (sample bottles and submission stuff can be pre-requested from Blackstone). Measure what you drained. See 4 and 5 below regarding drain plug and filter. Add that amount of oil back in plus a bit if when you measured you were on the lowest bar. Subtract a bit if you were on the highest bar. You really want to aim for the middle bar or just a bit less. Cut your paper filter at the ends and slit down one side. Roll it out in the sun and look for metal.

4. Do not over torque the drain plug. 37 lbft is factory recommendation, but only go 19. And use a new crush washer. Make sure your hex tool is fully inserted to avoid damaging the plug.

5. Use a bit of oil on the new o ring on the filter housing. Torque that to the spec on the top of the cover.

6. Don't overthink this. Mobil One, Motul, LiquiMoly, Driven, or other oil ... They all lubricate.

There Bruce ... You were looking for sparks?!?!?!?!

cvalue13

aware of the category, when it comes to forum fodder.

But admit that here there are whole new levels - don’t know that I’ve seen folks talking about oil for trucks whippin’ out ppm analyses 🤣

slicky rick

Hey Wayne! Did I read it right? Your aiming for an oil level of only half the reading?!?! May I ask why? Iv always filled my 997.2 at that top mark with the arrow. No smoke at start and never added in between changes after 60k...