Kodos9865

I was watching a video the other day on 997s, and one of the commentators said that only a small percentage (like ~15%) of 997.2s are MTs, as Porsche was really pushing the new PDK at the time.

Does anyone know what the real statistics on this are? I was really surprised when I heard that number.

Prairiedawg

Don't know the answer to that question globally but 997 GTS models were about 40% manuals for Coupes and 30% for Cabs.

Nate R

*checks garage*

100% - but my sample size is one.

Jokes aside, I've heard the 15-20% figure, which seems accurate after searching for a MT 997.2 for so long. I think a quick search on car gurus or Autotrader by transmission type would get you pretty close to this number.

wjk_glynn

Back in late-2016 / early-2017, I was looking for a 997.2 S Coupe (C2S or C4S), and I collected the following data on 75 cars advertised for sale.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...hat-i-saw.html

Note that I looked at photos to verify whether they were actually manuals or not (I didn’t rely on what the ad said, which was sometimes wrong).

And at the time, about 35% were manuals.

Now that doesn’t mean 35% originally sold were manuals. It’s just an observation of the Coupes available for sale at the time.

alfetta

I track 997.2 sales from the big 3 (Pcar, BAT and C&B)and other auction sites when I can get accurate data from them. I am surprised at the results.

I only have 2023-2024 coupe sales as that project is in progress. The past 15 month coupe sales show 36 PDK and 29 manuals. Cab sales back to 2019 show 67 PDKs and 70 manuals.

These results do not include turbos, outlaws or GT cars.

I double checked this as these numbers do not seem right. My theory is that people who use auctions are a self-selected group of enthusiasts who tend toward manuals. Or perhaps the 997 is the last stand of the analog-leaning drivers. Who knows.

PM me and I will email you my spread sheet. The sale data includes mileage, MSRP, color and so on. A COVID project that has taken on a life of its own.

Carrera2RS

In the UK manuals are much less common, at the moment 42 997's for sale on Pistonheads (a more enthusiasts sale website) and only 3 manual

bluelines1974

That low take rate on the manual shouldn't be too surprising. The 997.2 marked the first appearance of the PDK transmission on the 911 - it was the new new thing that we were told would ultimately make traditional manuals obsolete. Obviously many people continued to prefer the manual (myself included), but this was the first generation of 911 where you could get the automatic without feeling you were fundamentally compromising the car. Dealers would certainly have been trained to explain the benefits of the PDK (not least to get people to pay for what was at that time a costly option).

Prairiedawg

I think if serious research was done like with the 997 GTS models, you would find the take rate for manuals is much higher than you would expect.

sandwedge

That seems to be the number or numbers. 15% to 20% manuals comes up wherever you search. Has been pretty consistent since the PDK was introduced 15 years ago.

A911Fan

Nationally there are 31 997.2's listed on autotrader in Canada. 11 are listed as manual and 20 are listed as auto. There are at least 4 that I can see listed under manual that are actually PDK. So to answer your question, a quick snap shot of it would be at this current time would be 7 out of 31, or 22.5%. That seems to track with the 15-25% number. 1 of the 7 is a turbo and the other 1 of the 7 is a GT2. So if you discount those, that would be 5 out of 29 which would be about 17%.

Busta Rib

Agreed! Production numbers for manual 997s was higher than conventional wisdom: more like ~35-40%, not 10-20%. For example, 43% of GTS and 35% of 4 GTS coupes were manual with an overall average take rate of 38% for North America. This isn't reflected in the used market as you will rarely see them for sale. This leads me to believe the majority of manual owners are holding onto their cars rather than selling for something different/new.

sm7400

^^ Agree. I suspect the manual owners are hanging onto them at a higher rate. Especially as the 997 moves into its prime. I also note that the last two Manual GTS coupe 997s I saw for sale are selling for the same/more than 991.2 GTS with similar KMs, which was not the case 1-2 years ago.

cvalue13

I’m a total noob, so take this as a genuine question more than a counter: isn’t it possible the GTS is a skewed example/sample?

Have been reading contemporary press on the GTS release, and see multiple characterizations similar to the one below by C&D:

”When the broccoli is boiled down, the GTS is just a Carrera S with the extra 23 horsepower of the S’s optional ($16,900!) power kit and the wide-body fenders of the AWD Carrera 4 model, plus center-lock RS Spyder wheels, GT3-like Alcantara interior trim, and some special GTS badges and flocking.

And it all comes at a discount compared with the powered-up S. Prices are $104,050 for a base GTS coupe and $113,850 for the GTS cabriolet. The PDK with steering-wheel paddles adds $4320. If you bought this GTS over a similarly equipped 2011 Carrera S, you’d save $5230.  And you’d get the 1.7-inch-wider hips, the nifty wheels, the sport exhaust with cockpit loud button, and the Alcantara for  free.“


Basically, the GTS was a relative budget option to get a lot of car for less / free.

On that view, at the time these were offered the uptake may have disproportionately leaned towards: folks who were simultaneously real driver-buyers (inclined disproportionately towards 6-speeds) and essentially value-shoppers (disinclined proportionately to spring for the $4,300 PDK option).



Not suggesting any objective data proof here, instead only adding to the collective ‘blue sky’ the observation that there’s at least a colorable argument that GTS uptake leaned disproportionately towards manual compared to their contemporary buyers of then-available cost-is-no-issue configurations/option-bloating. (Also not suggesting this is a novel observation, as I believe I’ve before seen others offering up similar takes.)

In which case, if true, we might expect contemporary uptake of Base C, CS, etc., to not necessarily reflect GTS uptake, and GTS uptake may instead be inflated?


Admittedly, I’m biased: I imagine myself in 2011 with my preferences/tastes, and the rationale laid out by C&D above would have been my line of thinking:

“for ~$1K less than a Carrera S PDK, I could get essentially an super-S+, GT-leaning, example in my preferred manual config, with ‘free’ wide body, alacantra, sport exhaust, and upgraded wheels?!”

Ironman88

That is one possibility. Or, a significant number of the the manual shift cars that are selling, are selling "under the radar" - without being advertised.

Busta Rib

Nobody knows for sure as I have yet to see any hard data with a breakdown of overall 997 manual vs PDK production numbers. Starting with the 991 generation, it's reasonable to assume manual production numbers decreased and have continued to do so ever since, which correlates with the decreasing popularity, use, and ability to drive a stick shift in the general population, as well as manufacturers pulling back from offering cars with stick shift transmissions. The chart I posted is just one data point but offers actual data. Take what you will from it but regardless of how special the GTS line may be, I find it difficult to imagine the Porsche product managers at the time skewing too far from market dynamics and demand when determining configuration mix.