ronmart

This disgusts me:

http://cadillac.gmblogs.com/2008/05/...urburgrin.html

If my memory serves me correctly, isn't that a few seconds faster than Walter Rorhl in a 997?

Ugh!

Porsche needs to realize that it is about 100hp behind the horsepower war these days.

ELUSIVE

I wouldn't say it disgusts me.
These two cars have been going head to head in SCCA Speed World Challenge throughout the past several years. Being involved in that series has made me grow to appreciate the CTS-V's (and this was the previous generation car).

This new one is even more of a monster.

blk on blk

I have differing opinions on this. First and foremost you could make a caddy that was 0-60 in 2 seconds, had 1000 hp and cost 45 grand and there is no situation on this Earth in which I would rather have that car than a base 997 Carrera. the other thing is really how much more HP do most of us need or even want? 99% of us cannot drive the car at its peak HP anyway, and 99% cannot put the 325 HP around the track in a manner that is anything but mediocre so why really do we need that much more power? Just to say mine is bigger than yours? At the end of the day that is what it is about, and yes I understand when you pay 75-150k for a Porsche it damn well should be one of the fastest cars on the road. I will say I do to some degree think we should have more power. At the end of the day Porsche is supposed to be the leader in fast cars and it is hard to argue the 997 even with the facelift and power bump is not to some degree underpowered given the current market. Still, I ain't about to consider any cadillac over any porsche. Period.

eqs

The 911 Turbo was king back in the seventies 0-60 in 6.7s, only the Scarab was quicker at 6.2 - the Countach 6.8, Berlinetta Boxer 7.2, Aston V8 7.4 and the great American muscle machine L82 6.8.

Lotsa cars have big hp, but not a lot have handling. The CTSVs have come a long way since 04 and tracking at the Nordschleife has helped tremendously.

The Pcar is a good car, but a lot of manufacturers, domestics included have made major traction recently.

Every car has its pros and cons and what suits you, is what suits you. That's why I made the comment previously that there are many good drivers around, driving good cars. The Pcar is just another car. A fun car, but just another car. A great car then ........ no, jk.

Anyways, time to go sailing, cheers

TD in DC

I have zero brand loyalty.

Although I do not like the Caddys, I actually like the new corvettes.

But driving to me is more than just a question of numbers on the sheet. I like Porsches because they are smooth. If you plan to drive fast, you need to be smooth (your inputs may seem abrupt at the limit, but that is because you are doing what is necessary to keep the car on the edge).

Modern Porsches are ridiculously easy to drive, and they make many of us look like we are much better drivers than we really are. Not all cars do that, but that is exactly why I drive a Porsche.

I hope all of the other cars do get better. Competition is a good thing.

But what I would love to see more than the numbers posted by pro drivers around the ring are the numbers that an intermediate level amateur driver could get going around the ring (let's say best of 5 laps). So, this amateur driver with intermediate skills gets in the car, drives five laps, and records the times. I would bet that the results with respect to which cars posted faster times would be very different than the pro times. Rather than the fastest times being set by the cars that permit a pro to squeeze out the most performance, the fastest times would be acheived in the cars that make the intermediate driver feel most confident. That somewhat intangible quality would be much more important and useful to must of us normal drivers in the real world, including those of us who go to the track.

OldGuy

I wouldnt worry about this. I would guess this wouldnt be the first time, a car maker put a ringer on the ring. Pardon the pun. The Caddys in the World speed challenge were tube frame race cars. Not even CLOSE to the 997 that you can get off the showroom floor. When you start getting passed at the track by blue hairs in Caddy's then you can start getting disgusted. WHO knows what kind of car GM put out there to get a "NUMBER" to put in their commercials. When they start winning LeMans I will start paying attention to the Caddys commercials.

triode

That Caddy is a 550hp car...more than a 997 GT2...I'd be shocked if it DIDN'T beat a base 325hp 997.

But really, does anyone cross-shop Caddy and Porsche? Please.

Jim Michaels

Who's worried? Kudos to John Heinricy, GM Performance Division, the CTV-S, and GM for allowing the development of this sedan to continue in such times.

eqs

OG you and I know they're not going after you - they want the true red white and blue fans - not a P guy - not really anyways - maybe as a side market. The Vette guys, the Viper guys I would imagine, but who am I, I don't work in their marketing dept. Just guesses, all guesses. I'm just as ignorant as everyone else.

Anyways, fun times for the boys in Motown.

Cheers I'm back, that was fun.

TD in DC

DMB14

CTS-Vs are fast cars. I drove the old 400hp one and it's quite quick. I would still take pretty much any P-car over it though...

I don't concern myself with lap times.

Alan Smithee

It shouldn't digust you on many levels:

• The Nurburgring is an extremely fast track that favors power over handling. As stated above, the Caddy has a lot more power than the non-GT 997 models...it would be surprising if it didn't beat them around the 'ring.
  
• More competition makes for better cars across the board. Cadillac is becoming more of a competitor with every new generation. Even if you don't like Cadillacs, it will make for better MBs, BMWs, and Lexi.
  
• The horsepower war can't be 'won' without sacrificing the light feel of a sports car. Technology is resulting in more power out of smaller motors...but also more power out of bigger motors. There is no replacement for displacement, and displacement means more weight throughout the vehicle structure and components.
  
• As Americans, we all need the US auto industry to be successful. In order for the US auto industry to be successful, it needs to sell competitive vehicles.
  
• The horsepower war will not last. Just like in the 1970s, this era will end. Porsche needs to concentrate on keeping weight down rather than increasing horsepower.

MartinJ

Amen to keeping the weight down!

MartinJ

The time I could find for the 997S was 7:59.00 don't worry a Ferrari 360 Modena does it in 8:09!

OldGuy

The Horsepower war may be coming to a close in the US. with the Oil price problems GM Chrysler and Ford are all shelving programs that were going have big motors. Super Vettes the Viper follow on, and ford is taking V8s out of their town cars. I guess thats as High performance as Ford gets the Town car.

But still if you dig a little past the surface you will find out about the Caddys vettes etc. I was on the World Speed GT forums last year and it was amazing how much the rules favored the Series sponsor Cadillac. Even after all the rule bending Cadillac still had to punt Porsche off the track in the last race to win the Series. Porsche is just amazing in their abilities and they dont even really try too hard, i.e. not much customer support.