casaforte9

When the temeratures fall below 30 and especially below 20 , the 911 C2/C4 slides a lot since the OEM summer rubber is not good at that time

Will winter rubber help in those conditions and grip well OR is winter rubber more for getting thru snow?

I have read on the m3 forum that the e92 will spin easily around 40 MPH with OEM summer tires on a round about even with DSC on- Scary I guess , I felt atleast on my test drive, the 09 911 's PSM does a good job of bringing the car back in line in freezing weather

What is the general consensus here on using winter rubber for non snow days in winter ?

Thanks

19_hole

You MUST have the winter rubber for the cold as much as the snow. Summer tires are not designed to work very well below 40°F. The geberal description is that they get "greasy" when cold and the handling quality is very diminished.

Mtn Busa

Guys, clearly, you are technically corect. Still, at some level in your relationsjip with your P- car, don't you just drive, based on the seat of the pants feedback you receive?

Sheesh, here in the Rockies, ambient temperatures can vary greatly and I'm not about to change tires because of a cold front.

Also, temperatures at high altitude vary widely between daylight warming and nighttime cooling.

I kinda; figure my job involves reacting accordingly.

'Sides, it's fun to move around a little,

Paul523

Seriously, don't mess around with driving on summer tires during winter months in CO!!!! My wife's family lives in Castle Rock, so I've been out there quite a bit. The problem is not your ability to drive cautiously, but instead the other drivers' not anticipating things--- forcing you to make a panic-stop, which may not turn out well.

Just considering the sheer unpredictability of Rockies' weather between October and April would have me on dedicated winter rubber if we lived there year -round.

Find a set of Blizzaks that'll fit your car.
Blizzaks are worth it IMO, even though they will probably cost a bit more than the competitors' winter tires; I have tried winter Conti's , Pirellis, Michelin Alpins, and Bridgestone Blizzaks on various Porsche and other performance cars within the last 5 yrs, and I can say without hesitation that Blizzaks are superior to all other snow tire brands.

Good luck, maybe we'll run into you sometime around Castle Rock-- er, figuratively...& hopefully not vice versa.

Edgy01

Over the years tire manufacturers have gotten very specialized. With new materials available they have worked to improve traction during differing climatic conditions, but it comes at a price. These differing formulations are highly specific. For example, winter tires often have a different material like sunflower oil in them to improve their low temperature performance. As P-car owners we demand high performance tires for our cars,--they are one of the few things that an outsider (to Porsche) produces that has a profound impact upon its performance. But we have to settle with higher costs to gain that advantage, and that often requires the changeover to winter tires. With aggressive tread design, sipes, and special rubber formulations, the snow tires of today are vastly superior to snow tires of even ten years ago. If you have the opportunity to actually own a full set of 4 snow tires for a rear-driven car you will be absolutely amazed at how effective they are. Despite where I live I venture into snow country quite often and so I have snow tires for two other cars. (I am still hesitant to stock up on some 18 inch rims for the Carrera S onto which I would put 4 decent Michelin snow tires,--with provisions for cable chains (which don't fit the 19 inch rims) for super severe conditions.) (My other cars are more suitable to my winter forays).

tkids

I am in Colorado now and have had the privilege of driving on the icy/snowy roads, just as I did in N. Cali! The P-car has winter tires, but my wife's MINI has the summer tires on it. I took the MINI out last week and it was ridiculous!!! Like running on an Ice rink with my dress shoes! The smallest amount of any moisture at 27 degrees and we were slippin' and slidin'!!! Get winter shoes!

tcs2tx

I can't comment yet on winter tires for a 911 (my 2008 C4S cab is being delivered later today), but my previous car was an Audi S4 that came stock with performance tires suited for warm weather. I live in Chicago and thought I would try to make it through the winter without getting winter tires. I didn't have any problems until the first light dusting of snow. It was only a tiny amount of snow, and the car behaved like it was on a sheet of ice. I immediately ordered a winter set of wheels and tires from Tirerack and the improvement was amazing.

Chris from Cali

Exactly... same thing in the RS4 - fortunately I had my winters waiting in the garage when I got home.

RonCT

Cold and snow are two different things... Here in CT early spring and late fall track days can typically be in the 20s and low 30s - so below freezing. Yes, summer compound is best at above 40, but I'm always shocked at how well the PS2s grip when it's 26 degrees at Lime Rock. Of course everyone with R-comps is sitting at the sidelines hoping for warmer afternoon sessions and I have to wonder why they don't do what I do - leave my R-comps at home on days like that.

I had my GT3 out a week or so ago when the roads were clear and it was about 30 degrees. I have PS2s on that for road use and it was absolutely fine. Of course if there was any snow, I'd be toast.

Bob Rouleau

If someone hasn't beaten me to it already...

Summer tires use rubber compounds which "freeze" i.e., are at their hardest around 40 degrees F. Grip is poor at that temperature but it doesn't get worse as the temps get lower. They are bad and stay that way.

All season tires as fitted my most manufacturers are good to about 5 degrees F at which point they "freeze".

Winter tires use different rubber compounds and remain flexible down to -40 degrees. In addition the tread design can favor traction on snow and ice. Note that today, winter tires have become more specialized, some offer the best grip on snow, some on ice. Yet others are a compromise.

Winter tires designed for ice - like the original Blizzaks with the multi-cell compound (like foam rubber nearly) have the best grip on pure ice. On the other hand the wear quickly when used on bare pavement and stupidly fast if driven in warm conditions. They also compromise steering response.

One other interesting factoid is that tire engineers discovered that the best grip on snow was provided by ... snow! That's why tread patterns are designed to accumulate and hold snow in the tread. A big change from the old designs with large widely spaced lugs.

Where I live, winter tires are a must. We've had 80 inches of snow already. More in ski country. It is illegal here to drive without winter tires on all four wheels in the snow season.

Best,

tcs2tx

Agreed that everything seemed to be fine with cold and DRY conditions using the summer tires. But, any amount of snow created problems for me.

RonCT

And... Not all summer tires are created equal. There's some magic in the compound of tires like the PS2 and Neova - almost a blend of all season flexibility below 40 degrees, but with "old gen" R-compound grip in the warm and dry. Amazing how far tire technology has come.

pl

i live in north-east, i have winter tires on all my cars/vans.
if u drive in slight snow, frzn rain on winter tire once, you will switch.
how do i know? i "demo" my toyota AWD minivan with winter tires to most of my friends, they all switch to winter tires after the demo.
you can make it thought with all-season tires, but why not pay a little more for perf. and safety?

DanJK

Don't summer tires warm up though even when ambient temps are sub 40 degrees?

I'm suggesting that I can drive out of my garage and after a few minutes of moderate driving the tire compound it going to be in pretty good shape for dry roads even at sub 40 degrees. Correct?

A little snow and ice though and your finished. I took my 996 C4S out last fall with a 1/2 inch of fresh powder. I only had about a mile and a half to the restaurant, so thought I would be fine. Came upon my first very slight decline and it was like roller skates. I almost took out an oncoming UPS truck. I ended up ditching into a pile of leaves on the side of the road and walked.

But on dry roads, once my tires are warmed up a little, I feel pretty steady in the 997.

Maybe I'm just kidding myself.

Crazy Canuck

Last year I had to move my Carrera S into the driveway in winter for a few hours. There was little snow on the ground but I got stuck. Tires got cold.

I had to get pushed back to the garage.