Tesla Ride
07-30-2010, 11:13 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
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07-31-2010, 01:54 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
See my recent post on electric P-cars; Porsche is currently exhibiting electric Boxters at European trade shows. In 1969 a friend and I were given a make-work summer job, field-testing two prototype electric cars built by ESB on a Renault chassis. They did 0-60 essentially instaneously, and were totally silent.
07-31-2010, 03:50 AM
#19
Nordschleife Master
See my recent post on electric P-cars; Porsche is currently exhibiting electric Boxters at European trade shows. In 1969 a friend and I were given a make-work summer job, field-testing two prototype electric cars built by ESB on a Renault chassis. They did 0-60 essentially instaneously, and were totally silent.
07-31-2010, 07:41 AM
#20
Instructor
Guys it is not 150 mile range, it is 75 miles, remember you must get back 
Further it is way to quiet, you lose the sound perspective and it is almost nauseating. while it is rather quick, it cannot turn tite turns very well, aside from not being a porsche, it does not feel like a lotus. I would be afraid to go thru water as the batteries are on the bottom of the car, i would fear a short, in south florida, going thru deeper water is a way of life. I think that the biggest issue is that you would spend considerable amount of money installing the electical which is 3 phase 240, it would cost about $75,000 to install , if you could have it in your neigborhood, most home areas do not have this power. The scary part is that it would take charging in regular outlets overnite to recharge, which means you need to stay near hotels.
Although a neat concept, i would rather fill up with high octane fuel
Further it is way to quiet, you lose the sound perspective and it is almost nauseating. while it is rather quick, it cannot turn tite turns very well, aside from not being a porsche, it does not feel like a lotus. I would be afraid to go thru water as the batteries are on the bottom of the car, i would fear a short, in south florida, going thru deeper water is a way of life. I think that the biggest issue is that you would spend considerable amount of money installing the electical which is 3 phase 240, it would cost about $75,000 to install , if you could have it in your neigborhood, most home areas do not have this power. The scary part is that it would take charging in regular outlets overnite to recharge, which means you need to stay near hotels.Although a neat concept, i would rather fill up with high octane fuel
07-31-2010, 08:24 AM
#21
Burning Brakes
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While I agree some of the e-cars may be "fadish" you must admit the 0-60 numbers are quite compelling. Porsche might be able to pull one off with a hybrid that gives nuts like us the feel of a Porsche plus the added torque.
07-31-2010, 05:04 PM
#22
Nordschleife Master
Royalpar1, A lot of incorrect information in this post ... to set the record straight ... 
from the Tesla Website http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric/charging
The Roadster’s charger is incorporated into the power train system, enabling the use of any conventional 110-volt or 220-volt power outlet for charging. The Roadster and its connectors are designed to offer owners the freedom to charge whenever and wherever they want. Charging at night provides an extra financial advantage as many utility companies offer special rates during off-peak hours, when demand for electricity is low. When paired with a residential solar array, the Roadster offers complete driving independence. Plug in before bed and wake up with a full 245 miles of driving range.
from the Tesla Website http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric/charging
The Roadster’s charger is incorporated into the power train system, enabling the use of any conventional 110-volt or 220-volt power outlet for charging. The Roadster and its connectors are designed to offer owners the freedom to charge whenever and wherever they want. Charging at night provides an extra financial advantage as many utility companies offer special rates during off-peak hours, when demand for electricity is low. When paired with a residential solar array, the Roadster offers complete driving independence. Plug in before bed and wake up with a full 245 miles of driving range.
Guys it is not 150 mile range, it is 75 miles, remember you must get back Further it is way to quiet, you lose the sound perspective and it is almost nauseating. while it is rather quick, it cannot turn tite turns very well, aside from not being a porsche, it does not feel like a lotus. I would be afraid to go thru water as the batteries are on the bottom of the car, i would fear a short, in south florida, going thru deeper water is a way of life. I think that the biggest issue is that you would spend considerable amount of money installing the electical which is 3 phase 240, it would cost about $75,000 to install , if you could have it in your neigborhood, most home areas do not have this power. The scary part is that it would take charging in regular outlets overnite to recharge, which means you need to stay near hotels.
Although a neat concept, i would rather fill up with high octane fuel
Further it is way to quiet, you lose the sound perspective and it is almost nauseating. while it is rather quick, it cannot turn tite turns very well, aside from not being a porsche, it does not feel like a lotus. I would be afraid to go thru water as the batteries are on the bottom of the car, i would fear a short, in south florida, going thru deeper water is a way of life. I think that the biggest issue is that you would spend considerable amount of money installing the electical which is 3 phase 240, it would cost about $75,000 to install , if you could have it in your neigborhood, most home areas do not have this power. The scary part is that it would take charging in regular outlets overnite to recharge, which means you need to stay near hotels.Although a neat concept, i would rather fill up with high octane fuel
Last edited by FlatSix911; 07-31-2010 at 09:34 PM.
07-31-2010, 05:57 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
A lot of incorrect information in this post ... to set the record straight ...
from the Tesla Website http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric/charging
... Plug in before bed and wake up with a full 245 miles of driving range.
from the Tesla Website http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric/charging
... Plug in before bed and wake up with a full 245 miles of driving range.
07-31-2010, 09:33 PM
#24
Nordschleife Master
Guys it is not 150 mile range, it is 75 miles, remember you must get back Further it is way to quiet, you lose the sound perspective and it is almost nauseating. while it is rather quick, it cannot turn tite turns very well, aside from not being a porsche, it does not feel like a lotus. I would be afraid to go thru water as the batteries are on the bottom of the car, i would fear a short, in south florida, going thru deeper water is a way of life. I think that the biggest issue is that you would spend considerable amount of money installing the electical which is 3 phase 240, it would cost about $75,000 to install , if you could have it in your neigborhood, most home areas do not have this power. The scary part is that it would take charging in regular outlets overnite to recharge, which means you need to stay near hotels.
Although a neat concept, i would rather fill up with high octane fuel
Further it is way to quiet, you lose the sound perspective and it is almost nauseating. while it is rather quick, it cannot turn tite turns very well, aside from not being a porsche, it does not feel like a lotus. I would be afraid to go thru water as the batteries are on the bottom of the car, i would fear a short, in south florida, going thru deeper water is a way of life. I think that the biggest issue is that you would spend considerable amount of money installing the electical which is 3 phase 240, it would cost about $75,000 to install , if you could have it in your neigborhood, most home areas do not have this power. The scary part is that it would take charging in regular outlets overnite to recharge, which means you need to stay near hotels.Although a neat concept, i would rather fill up with high octane fuel
The Home Connector is the fastest way to charge the Roadster and great for installation in a garage or covered parking area.
Completely recharge – from empty to full – in less than 4 hours.
This is the most “intelligent” connector making it ideal for long-term storage. Any certified electrician can install this unit.
Technical Specifications
Maximum Current: 70A
Voltage: 208-240V, Single phase
Maximum Power: 16.8 kW
Cord Length: 25 ft
Unit Weight: 47 lbs
Intelligent auto resettable GFCI Stationary Unit $1950
http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectri...home-connector
07-31-2010, 09:44 PM
#25
Nordschleife Master
The usual recharge time is 8 hours. Faster charging (240V - high current) severely reduces battery life. But in any case, EVs are short range vehicles. They keep their owners on a very short leash.
The fuel cost is highly misleading. Electric costs will be much higher because utilities will charge more /kWh as more energy is consumed. I doubt night rates will decrease that much. On top of that batteries do not last forever and they cost $20k.
The fuel cost is highly misleading. Electric costs will be much higher because utilities will charge more /kWh as more energy is consumed. I doubt night rates will decrease that much. On top of that batteries do not last forever and they cost $20k.
07-31-2010, 09:54 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
The same government that is pouring tax (printed/borrowed) dollars into electric cars, is also trying to raise electricity rates and limit every possible way to generate cheap electricity (coal, nuclear) or tax those sources that currently produce. It's total insanity.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/op...=3&ref=opinion
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/op...=3&ref=opinion
08-03-2010, 04:23 AM
#27
As FlatSix pointed out, there is a lot of wrong information in this thread. I not only own a 997S, but a Tesla Roadster as well so my comments are based on experience not rumor or conjecture. Also, I think it's important to note I am not "green" nor a Tesla fan boi. Ask a question and I will give you a straight answer and to the best of my knowledge. So here goes:
As you mention in your update, there is no income phase out. The $7,500.00 tax credit is good regardless of income.
While I am sure a Tesla with all your options would approach $120k, your comment makes it seems like air conditioning is an option, it's not. It comes standard. I don't recall if the base stereo had a CD, but I wanted a nav system so I went with the upgraded stereo. Also, your estimate of $120k likely did not include the tax credit which would reduce the price a good chunk. Also, being a Porsche owner I can't really complain about the cost of options by any other car manufacturer with a straight face
. A P-Turbo would likely cost $30k more.
A Tesla is expensive, however you have an all carbon fiber body, sub 4 second 0-60, direct steering, immediate torque, etc. The pricing of the car is comparable to other similarly performing cars.
Equally important, and what most people seem to miss, is that the Tesla is more than just a car. It is a technological advancement, not only in equipment but software. The research, development and innovation required to achieve this obviously adds to the costs of the Tesla beyond the sum of the car parts. Think of it as being one of the first computers, cell phones, flat screen TVs etc. The initial costs were very high and came down over time (This is precisely what Tesla is doing. The Model S that Tesla will be producing will be significantly cheaper.) Consequently, I think the pricing of the car does reflect what it is.
Top Gear is my favorite tv show...I'm watching it as I type (Zonda, xj220, Enzo, CGT, F40 and McLaren all in one episode!). That being said, you have to remember that the Top Gear is an entertainment program, not a journalistic review. Probably nothing shows this more than the Tesla episode where Top Gear admitted that they faked problems on the program http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3a7_1230707142.
Still, if you watch the Top Gear episode, it shows the Tesla beating a Lotus in a drag race by a considerable margin, beating the Lotus again around the Top Gear Track, and equaling the time of a Porsche 996 GT3 around the track. Not bad especially considering, unlike the other two cars mentioned, the Tesla isn't meant to be a track car. Also, if you read Top Gear magazine they had a very positive article about the Tesla.
I don't drive conservatively at all and I get much more range than that. The car as different settings from performance to range mode which maximizes the range. You will not get the sub 4 second 0-60 time in range mode, but the reduction is not by much. Using the range mode you can achieve the claimed 240 mile range. Interestingly enough, 240 miles is more than I get with a full tank in my p-car. Obviously the benefit of the p-car is that gas stations are plentiful and can be quickly refueled. However, I don't refuel my Porsche every day as I don't drive over 200 miles on any given day so recharging the Tesla at night provides me similar usability of the p-car.
It's a tax credit. This means I get to deduct this from the taxes I'm already paying. In other words I get to keep my own money, the money I worked for, the money I earned. Your tax dollars are not going to me. I pay an absurd amount of taxes each year. Sorry for the rant, I hate taxes. 
As I mentioned above, the range is higher than 150. I have never had a day where I have even come close to using the battery's full capacity (in performance mode). Also, while the car is very quiet at a stop or moving slowly, the tire and wind noise while moving hardly makes the Tesla a quiet car. The electric engine does make a noise as well. Kind of a futuristic star trek whine.
Next, I wouldn't take a Tesla through deep water, not only because of the battery but because it is low. I would't take a Lotus, Lambo, Ferrari, many turbo cars with low air intake, or my p-car into deep water either.
I have no idea where the $75k for installing electrical came from. That's crazy. There are three methods of charging the car. One is a regular outlet. Cost of installation is $0, but it takes longest to charge. Next step is connecting to a 220 outlet. Some homes have this already for dryers or other large appliances. Cost of having it installed varies depending on how difficult it is to run the electrical wires to your desired outlet location, but this cost is minor. The third option is the installation of a full charging station which reduces charging time to 3-4 hours for a full recharge which costs (I think) $1900 plus installation. Once again installation cost would depend on the home, but I doubt you would pay more than $2000 for install. That being said a charging station is not necessary. Installing a 220 outlet is the best option. Plug it in at night. Wake up and it's set.
Now before I get kicked out of Rennlist, if I had to choose one car to keep it would undoubtedly be my 997S. The Porsche handles better, is more comfortable, practical (it has rear seats so it's a family car
), has years of refinement and, imo, has a soul that the upstart Tesla does not. Luckily, I'm fortunate that I don't have to choose.
This is not to say that the Tesla handles poorly. It has very direct steering with good feed back. However, you can feel the weight of the batteries in turns. I hope to take it to the track later this summer to see how it well it really handles. But, despite it's instant torque great acceleration, you have to remember that this isn't meant to be a track car. It's a really fun car to drive with the top off.
Hope this clarifies a few things,
Cheers.
Careful on that tax credit - Many of them have income phase-outs...If there is a income phase-out, I'm guessing anyone buying a $100,000 Tesla will not get a tax credit, but the salesmen will never mention that to you.
UPDATE:
A quick review of this does not show an income phase out and it appears to apply to the AMT calculation (which is quickly becoming the real tax code) unlike last year.
UPDATE:
A quick review of this does not show an income phase out and it appears to apply to the AMT calculation (which is quickly becoming the real tax code) unlike last year.
. A P-Turbo would likely cost $30k more. A Tesla is expensive, however you have an all carbon fiber body, sub 4 second 0-60, direct steering, immediate torque, etc. The pricing of the car is comparable to other similarly performing cars.
Equally important, and what most people seem to miss, is that the Tesla is more than just a car. It is a technological advancement, not only in equipment but software. The research, development and innovation required to achieve this obviously adds to the costs of the Tesla beyond the sum of the car parts. Think of it as being one of the first computers, cell phones, flat screen TVs etc. The initial costs were very high and came down over time (This is precisely what Tesla is doing. The Model S that Tesla will be producing will be significantly cheaper.) Consequently, I think the pricing of the car does reflect what it is.
Still, if you watch the Top Gear episode, it shows the Tesla beating a Lotus in a drag race by a considerable margin, beating the Lotus again around the Top Gear Track, and equaling the time of a Porsche 996 GT3 around the track. Not bad especially considering, unlike the other two cars mentioned, the Tesla isn't meant to be a track car. Also, if you read Top Gear magazine they had a very positive article about the Tesla.
Guys it is not 150 mile range, it is 75 miles, remember you must get back Further it is way to quiet, you lose the sound perspective and it is almost nauseating. while it is rather quick, it cannot turn tite turns very well, aside from not being a porsche, it does not feel like a lotus. I would be afraid to go thru water as the batteries are on the bottom of the car, i would fear a short, in south florida, going thru deeper water is a way of life. I think that the biggest issue is that you would spend considerable amount of money installing the electical which is 3 phase 240, it would cost about $75,000 to install , if you could have it in your neigborhood, most home areas do not have this power. The scary part is that it would take charging in regular outlets overnite to recharge, which means you need to stay near hotels.
Although a neat concept, i would rather fill up with high octane fuel
Further it is way to quiet, you lose the sound perspective and it is almost nauseating. while it is rather quick, it cannot turn tite turns very well, aside from not being a porsche, it does not feel like a lotus. I would be afraid to go thru water as the batteries are on the bottom of the car, i would fear a short, in south florida, going thru deeper water is a way of life. I think that the biggest issue is that you would spend considerable amount of money installing the electical which is 3 phase 240, it would cost about $75,000 to install , if you could have it in your neigborhood, most home areas do not have this power. The scary part is that it would take charging in regular outlets overnite to recharge, which means you need to stay near hotels.Although a neat concept, i would rather fill up with high octane fuel
Next, I wouldn't take a Tesla through deep water, not only because of the battery but because it is low. I would't take a Lotus, Lambo, Ferrari, many turbo cars with low air intake, or my p-car into deep water either.
I have no idea where the $75k for installing electrical came from. That's crazy. There are three methods of charging the car. One is a regular outlet. Cost of installation is $0, but it takes longest to charge. Next step is connecting to a 220 outlet. Some homes have this already for dryers or other large appliances. Cost of having it installed varies depending on how difficult it is to run the electrical wires to your desired outlet location, but this cost is minor. The third option is the installation of a full charging station which reduces charging time to 3-4 hours for a full recharge which costs (I think) $1900 plus installation. Once again installation cost would depend on the home, but I doubt you would pay more than $2000 for install. That being said a charging station is not necessary. Installing a 220 outlet is the best option. Plug it in at night. Wake up and it's set.
Now before I get kicked out of Rennlist, if I had to choose one car to keep it would undoubtedly be my 997S. The Porsche handles better, is more comfortable, practical (it has rear seats so it's a family car
), has years of refinement and, imo, has a soul that the upstart Tesla does not. Luckily, I'm fortunate that I don't have to choose. This is not to say that the Tesla handles poorly. It has very direct steering with good feed back. However, you can feel the weight of the batteries in turns. I hope to take it to the track later this summer to see how it well it really handles. But, despite it's instant torque great acceleration, you have to remember that this isn't meant to be a track car. It's a really fun car to drive with the top off.
Hope this clarifies a few things,
Cheers.
08-03-2010, 12:13 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
One of the big concerns is the performance of lithium batteries in cold weather. icruze -- have you had the car long enough to see how it does in bitter cold Chicago winters? Or does it stay inside in the really bad weather?
08-03-2010, 05:35 PM
#30
The Tesla is different. It's not meant to be a track car, but sometimes it's hard to remember that when you see its performance numbers. It is interesting technology and definitely a fun to drive car. Driving with the top off on a warm summer night is as fun as it gets. As I mentioned, I'm not "green" so you won't get that bs from me, but the electric technology and carbon fiber body are cool. That being said, if it didn't work as a car first, the electric benefits would be utterly meaningless.
The car has no power steering, so the steering feels very nice and direct. It's almost like driving a go cart. Acceleration is very fast with full torque coming on immediately. It only has one gear, which can be a welcome break from my 6 speed especially in traffic (maybe I'm getting old).
The regenerative braking slows the car down fairly well without even touching the brakes. If you are driving normally, break use is minimal. You have to keep this in mind when you decide to have some spirited driving since you may need to use the breaks a few times to get them warmed up. The main issue I have with the car performance wise is the you can feel the extra weight of the batteries around corners when you are really pushing the car. Like I said, I want to get the car to the track to really see how much of a difference it makes. As battery technology gets better I suspect the weight will decrease and range increase.
The interior of the car is sparse, similar to the Lotus. Porsche interior is more comfortable and quality is better. Radio isn't very good, although I think the radio that is being shipped with the new version of the Roadster is better/more functional.
The Tesla gets a ton of attention rolling down the street with people taking pictures from cars, trying to race you etc., preferred parking at restaurants and people stop you to ask lots of questions about the car wherever you go. Stuff you don't get with the p-car (at least where I live). I'm not a big fan of the attention, but as someone who would like to get a Ferrari or Lambo in the future it seems this is par for the course for these low production # cars and have accepted it.
The Tesla was delivered mid-way through this last winter. Consequently, it was driven in the cold and in the snow (no garage queens in my garage). The battery performance (range) is better in warmer weather, but not significantly. I think the reason the for the decrease in range (admittedly, purely speculation on my part) is not so much the battery performance, but rather the fact that the car has to use some of its power to keep the batteries at their ideal temp. range (the battery pack essentially has its own climate control system). Handling in the snow was good, especially once the snow tires were put on (thanks Damon from TireRack).