NA011

This should get you started:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ps-attack.html

Steen Jensen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=h0L0klF8lVo

Looks pretty straightforward...

gpjli2

So there HAS been a conspiracy to keep this quiet while we worried about rms Apparently the vanes break off the pump and either grind up the block (metal) or clog the water passages (plastic) and the engine goes very quickly. I am glad to hear that most have had warning in terms of leak or noise. With the recent posts maybe a preemptive replacement at some point (but when?) makes some sense. Especially at time of coolant change. Btw, Suncoast sells the 350$ oem part for 219 the last time I looked. Neway just a heads up and a dialog that has been curiously missing on these boards.

Spokane5150

Good video but that guys car was shamefully dirty.

Flat6 Innovations

Keep in mind that this vendor that makes the recommendation does so due to exposure to perfectly fine running, low mileage engines that have failed due to a loss of a water pump impeller blade. The symptoms are classic and these occurrences are quickly exceeding any other mode of failure.

Further keep in mind that we don't even sell water pumps! I have nothing to gain by recommending a water pump replacement as an elective procedure. Hell, my company is way better off if I don't tell you to replace the pump and you have a failure, because everyone that has a failure and then looks to Google will call us and a good portion seek out our services.

When the factory developed these engines they had no idea what the wear intervals would be or how exposure to thermal cycles and coolant would impact the impeller blades. They also didn't want to make the car "look expensive to own" so periodic maintenance intervals on some parts simply never existed. Come answer my phones for a week and you'll understand.

R&D departments that are staffed by innovative, problem solving hard chargers are much more effective than those that are managed by accountants. We have solved many issues that never should have existed. The factory said that it was impossible to extract a dual row IMS bearing; while I devised a tool that has done the job thousands of times and it was built from 12 dollars worth of pieces I bought from a local hardware store.

Jay H

Mr. Raby,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread. I'll also apologize to you if my post referenced above was taken as a negative view of you or your company. I'll be the first person to admit that you and Charles have done more for the M96 enthusiast than most anyone else including Porsche. You have solutions to failures of these motors where as Porsche's solution is to just have you trade in your car on a brand new one (and make them even more money). Porsche has (IMO) buried their heads in the sand on several critical issues on these cars in order to minimize their warranty accruals on their balance sheet.

The point of my post (admittedly poorly written as most of my posts are) was that when it comes to preventative maintenance, everyone needs to assess their situation and make decisions based on various factors and do research based on various opinions and experiences of others. As mentioned earlier, the slope of preventative maintenance is a slippery one. There are so many issues with these cars (as most all cars) that one could spend tens of thousands replacing components that might fail. Water pumps are only one of many items that are most likely not designed for a low failure rate.

In this case, should one run out and replace their water pump at 3 years if their car is a 3rd or 4th vehicle that is used on sunny Sunday's for pleasure and the risk of component failure keeping you from a destination is low? Should one replace their water pump if the car is a daily driver and is critical to getting them to a serious destination without failure? Is the car under warranty? Is it used on the track? Is it thrashed every time it goes out of the garage? Is it driven at low stress levels? How old is it? How many years into the model run is it? All of those parameters and levels of your own risk of being stranded need to be considered before making decisions on replacing components.

Again, thank you for all that you do to educate folks on these M96 motors.

Flat6 Innovations

Yes, I did take your post as another "vendor hater" that thinks we are only in this for monetary reasons.. I get so tired of the vendor haters that I want to just sell the damn business. The problems we face with engines are easy to solve, while those we have with some of the people just make me want to **** fire.

As I post from a remote location, from a device that isn't conducive to fetail all I can say is te guy that drives his car the least is the one who is the most susceptible to experiencing a water pump failure that creates collateral damage. Remember that whether or not the car is running the water pump impeller is exposed to coolant and that's what breeds the issues.

Statements like you made about vendors writing directives and stating things only to self serve is the reason why I never finished my IMS retrofit video and why I have pulled all the technical articles from my site. I have never seen a group o people that were so hard to help in all my days..

Buy 40 bucks worth of tools and a water pump, spend the afternoon changing the component in your driveway and more than likely you won't have to call us with classic symptoms. Porsches have always been expensive to maintain, the odd thing is that the AirCooled following always wanted to spend money electively outfitting their cars.. It's a completely different world, but most of those guys were like me and feel that Porsches don't have power brakes, power steering, climate control worth a damn and most of all they don't have water pumps.
Spend money to avoid problems or spend much larger amounts after you have a problem, either way it will get spent.

I appreciate your kind words, please don't bash those of us who carry these cars in our hearts much more loyally than what they put in our wallets. I get more from solving problems than any amount of money.

USMC_DS1

This sound similar to the issue we had on the bimmer side with my prior e36 m3... most of us replaced the plastic impeller WP with metal ones especially if you were going to track it. Anyone know if an 997.1 with MY08 has the metal or plastic impeller? or do you just have to get in there to find out. Also seems from the earlier read on this thread that the more recent M97 engines have done away with those capillaries where the small plastic bits would get lodged. Does that eliminate this potential issue? I still don't like the idea of plastic FOD swimming thru my engine until it finds a spot to lodge itself. Is this another “best of evils” conundrum... plastic swimming bits/potential engine fractures vs. potential metal lathe if the WP(with metal blades) is eschewed. Am I reading this right? Seems like an opportunity for someone(Jake?) to manufacture WP’s with metal blades which are softer than the engine block and would bend vs. lathe the engine block if the WP is eschewed. Is that even possible? Which metal is softer than aluminum but would still hold it's shape at high RPM in hot engine coolant?

Flat6 Innovations

Nope.. Not that easy. If it were we would have billet chromoly impeller blades and they would have been available 5 years ago when these issues exams more apparent.

Remember that these water pumps not only are prone to impeller blade failure but they also are known for bearing issues. With a plastic impeller if you have a failure of a support bearing the impeller breaks, you hear a ton of noise and shut the car down. Replace the water pump and account for 100% of the broken impeller blades and go on without issue.
With a steel or even aluminum impeller the entire crankcase becomes compromised when the impeller that sits so close to it chews into it and destroys the case bore. When this happens you need a new engine because you'll never build adequate coolant pressure again.

Of course we came up with a protection sleeve for the case bore and the proper impeller that would work together to provide the best protection. The issue with this is the cost is 2.5X more than a water pump replacement.
This is why I just ensure my engine purchasers change the water pump every 3 years...

Jay H

I feel that as the water cooled cars age and fall into the hands of mostly enthusiasts (you have to be an enthusiat to put up with an old performance car ), your company is going to be in a good position to serve that market. I have two air cooled 911's and will spend whatever is necessary to keep them running well. My water cooled 911...'eh...it's disposable to some degree.

If the water pump isssue is an area for your company to make some money in the future, I'd personally rather give my cash to your business than to line Porsche's checking account for their poor design.

Your efforts have not gone unnoticed. My preferred shop (a very high end race shop that works closely with Porsche) uses your products quite a bit and has zero hesitation to recommend your equipment and I've been told a particular manufacturer is silently recommending a certain vendor's products to fix a certain weak link in their own motors.

USMC_DS1

OK, sounds like I should consider this as I'm there in years with my '08 997.1 at 50K+ miles. It's still under warranty and CPO but like most pre-emptive swaps... not covered by the p-dealer until it grenades. But cheap pre-emptive insurance... I'm about to flush the coolant and add the 3rd radiator anyways so may as well add this to the project.

Doug_B_928

Is there a DIY with pics for the 997.1 water pump procedure? I've seen the 996 video one on YouTube, but haven't been able to find a procedural write-up for the 997.

Flat6 Innovations

Thank for the kind words guys.. Just understand the caveats with each component selection that is made and have fun!

Charolastra

Woke up this morning to find my 2007 C2S had peed engine coolant all over the place. I think this is probably going to require a water pump replacement.... How often is this problem? When I took it to my shop, they said they see this a lot more often than the overhyped IMS issue....

Edinsf

Porsche might have a larger R&D section than Raby's....doesn't mean a thing. Porsche really screwed up on the m96 and m97 engine and it took a bright fellow like Jake to fix and IMPROVE Porsche's royal **** up.