NoPasaran

Hello, everyone!

I am new on the forum but I've been reading Rennlist for some time.
I am from Europe.
I am thinking about buying a 2007-2008 997.1 TT with a manual transmission, 911 Turbo is a dream car for me.
It is not so much the purchasing of the car but the subsequent service that makes me apprehensive. Metzger engine is known to be robust, the gearbox as well, but the metzger engine is complicated piece of machinery which can be expensive to maintain/repair.
I do not know if you've ever come across the following site of a Porsche specialist in UK where they have lots of interesting technical/maintenance info on different Porsche engines:

http://www.hartech.org/buyers.html

I've read the paper for 997 engine and now I have this feeling that each and every 997TT will have cylinder scoring by 50k miles.
If I buy a 911TT I buy it for years and will drive it for more than 50k miles, now I am unsure....

jhbrennan

Sorry I don't have the patience to read all this information but after a quick scan I didn't see any reference to cylinder scoring on the Mezger (Note - Mr. Mezger doesn't like the "t" added to his name)engine. Maybe you could point us to the document and page you are referencing.

NoPasaran

Maybe I am wrong, I do not want to start another one of those IMS/RMS scare threads, just genuinely looking for info on 997.1TT problems.

In part 5 it is written:
"The M96 and M97 engine that came out in 1997/8 in the Boxster as a 2.5 (and later as a 996 3.4, 986 2.7 and 3.2) and was developed into the 996 3.6, 997 3.6 and 997 3.8 (and the Cayman 2.7 and 3.4) are all very similar – so much so that most engines could be fitted with a few different parts (or have
a few small changes made in a machine shop) and be turned into any of the other examples (i.e. they are for most technical comments – identical)."

Given your answer does it mean that 997TT has different engine than mentioned 997 3.6? I thought they had same Mezger engine, only TT has a couple of turbos added.

jhbrennan

M96 and M97 are completely different than the GT1 Mezger engine that is fitted in the 997 TT, GT2's, GT3's. 997.2 TT no longer has the Mezger engine. Only consistent complaint I read about the Mezger engine is that it can be noisy. Since Porsche uses the Mezger engine in its race cars, it's pretty solid.

NoPasaran

Thanks for the info!

function12

They are noisy at idle. Some are not but most are. Mine is. Sort of sucks sitting at a traffic light and you don't hear a nice rumble. Mash the gas and you unleash the beast. That is when the music start to play.
I went from an 04 NA to an 07TT because I got tired of reading your IMS is going to explode today. Plus, everyone always ask is that a turbo? Now I can say YES!!

avader906

997.1 TT has engine from the porsche racing platform. The car is expensive to maintain relative to second-hand prices (but in line with original 100k£+ price tag). As with any car that is designed for performance with racing roots, the flip side is proper maintenance. Engine rebuild is not that expensive to start with - the price is mostly parts (reflecting special manufacturing tolerances and alloys used).

The statement regarding "complexity" of mezger platform is false, when compared with cars of similar performance 997.1 TT is pretty simple. "cylinder scoring by 50k miles" had not been observed, is not normal or usual in these engines; but it is not as catastrophic or costly if that would happen in non mezger blocks. You could search rennlist forums (997 GT2/3, 997 Turbo, 993 tt and earlier -> that have mezger) for cylinder scoring to get more feel for how frequent this is on mezger platform as reported by users....

The engine is fully serviced - in line with general race car requirements . Same mezger (somewhat less complicated with no variocam etc) engines get fully rebuilt after 40-50h of running in GT/Cup cars - but on the race track they are pushed multiple times harder than one could do on streets.

One of the ways you can gauge its state is to do compression & leakdown tests before buying or when changing spark plugs. The need for the engine refresh depends on the frequency and type of usage as well as how well maintained the car is. The car that is used infrequently and for short distances (with little warm-up, cool-down) and with an oil change every 3 years will tend have more problems than one used frequently with appropriate care, annual oil change and aggressive driving.

ADias

The Mezger engine is reliable in general terms, but it can fail and when it does it is a $50k replacement proposition as opposed to $10k for a M97 engine. Turbos require more maintenance and parts are expensive.

cibergypsy

My dealer quoted me, were it to ever be necessary (which I hope not), a discounted price of $16k plus change for an X51 M97 motor with mine as core. The non-discounted price was closer to $20k with mine as core. Without a core, the X51 M97 motor is closer to $40k!

I didn't ask for the non-X51 motors' prices with/without core because it doesn't apply to me, but there seems to be a substantial difference in prices between them if the M97 is $10k.

Macster

Sigh.

While there are exceptions -- there are always exceptions but they are rare -- the 997 Turbo engine will be just fine.

Find a good car. Give it a thorough test ride/drive to give the engine and its controller time to flag any issues, like misfires, bad converters, bad MAF, and so on.

After a good test ride/drive (each leg should cover around 15 miles for a 30 mile total test ride/test) if you still like the car subject it to a very thorough used car check out. It is just a used car.

If you still like the car and believe you can swing a deal for the car arrange to have the car treated to a PPI by someone thoroughly knowledgeable about these cars. This PPI happens *after* the test ride/drive so if there are any leaks PPI should spot them.

After you buy a good car treat it to reasonable servicing and enjoy the heck out of the thing.

I enjoy my 03 Turbo and have for 78K+ miles. It had around 10K when I bought it in 09. The only thing I can think that would enhance my enjoyment of the car is to be able to enjoy it driivng it in Switzerland. Loved that country and its people when I visited it on business a few years back. The Renault rental car was not a Turbo!

Sincerely,

Macster.

avader906

in 95% of cases requiring you to replace M96/M97 with an entire new engine / crate - similar damage with mezger platform will allow you to rebuild the engine way under full replacement cost. more importantly you can fully service / refresh it while M96/M97 you cant. you can not have affordable performance - intelligent yes, affordable no. Parts are shared across entire 911 range - you can have suspension from GT3 cup cars bolted on your 997.1 turbo if you want. as i said - you cant buy a 100k£ sports car and complain about 2k£ tires or few grand in maintenance annually.

InTheAir

NoPasaran,

As couple notes:

1) There is a dedicated 997 Turbo forum here at Rennlist that you might want to post your questions in for (perhaps) greater viewing by other Turbo owners: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turbo-forum-139/

2) Don't confuse the 997.1TT engine with the base engines--they are completely different animals. That is one of the big pluses of the 997.1TT, is that you have the engine based on Porsche racing.

3) As I mentioned in your other thread, I have 43,000 miles on my 997.1TT engine and it is running very strong with no issues. Check back with me in another 43,000 miles and I'll let you know---I plan to still have it.

NoPasaran

Thanks, everyone!

Macster, if you are ever in Schweiz again I suggest you drive over Flüelen Pass (that is close to Davos) on a warm early Sunday morning (there is little traffic there at this time). I've covered many mountain passes here in my cars, but Flüelen was the best!