neanicu

Mike,Porsche is known to be conservative with numbers...whether it's performance or financial. So I really don't understand how these guys here can call them out...and saying they're lying...or let's not say lying but exaggerating...or being ' too optimistic ' .
Therefore,I am pretty sure the numbers you've published are real.

Mike in CA

neanicu, for those who might not be familiar with Panorama, the PCA monthly magazine, the sales figures I posted are tracked as a regular feature of the "Street Talk" column and have been for years. They are taken from official factory sources and are very specific, reflecting both good numbers and bad over the 26 years that I've been a subscriber and member. If Porsche AG has been faking sales statistics, you'd think someone at PCA would begin to notice discrepancies. Of course, the Porsche Club of America and Panorama's editors may be in on it too.....

Aerokitted

Yes sir!

Buy the newest you can afford still rings true in water cooled land is my schtick. There is no way the 997 package is better than the 991 as a package. For all the crap the 996 continues to receive to this very day by forum zealots the world over, as a driving tool, there isn't much difference since they share the same 12+ yr old chassis. So if the .2 guys are going to heap praises on the latest iterations, you're basically aggrandizing dfi, pdk, and a more modern pcm which the 991 does even better. I.e., the .2s are as much a 991 as they are a 997!

Entertaining thread nonetheless. I have no bone to pick as my wallet picked none of the above 911 design specs. Looks-wise, the 991 is a stunner and it is just the beginning. Exciting!

Quadcammer

I have not driven the car, so I won't comment on it, but from what I did experience, the performance was quite good. I liked the interior, yeah its more cushy, but the quality does seem better than the earlier cars. I also thought the car sounded great.

I don't love the rear end design with the sunken taillights. Maybe I'll go drive one and maybe I won't...don't really care.

And for the last time, people having criticism for a car are fine, people trying to make it seem like their opinions are fact and saying **** like the "991 isn't a 911" or its "not a true porsche" are the ones I call clowns.

rodsky

Ok, so we've established that you believe you understand 991 sales figures by driving around Florida. Thats hilarious. Personally, I look to actual sales figures or financial statements. I shop at Whole Foods. I do not try and understand how they are doing financially by looking around the store. I read their financial statements.

Oh and you also imply that the supreme court made an egregious mistep. No matter what the subject, and whether you agree with the topic at hand, the supreme court is supposed to call ***** and strikes. They are not supposed to be activists. I personally have new found respect for Roberts. He voted for something he probably dislikes and disagrees with. He voted based on whether it was within the bounds of the law. Thats what Judges should being doing.

Back on topic, The 991 is very much a 911. Like you, I have a 997 and did not get a 991. Mostly because i still very much like my 997 and dont see the need to "upgrade" just yet. Although, a 991GT3 is very tempting as THAT would be a nice upgrade. But for 997 owners to sit here and try and justify why their car is the last true 911, is simply laughable.

Zeus993

Just heard, and then saw a white 991 on the street yesterday. OK. Nice car. Visually not my taste but, like many the designs it may grow on me. The question I have is: are the designers of the car 'leading the edge' of the design and I am 'behind' and need to catch up or is it simply a bad awkward design? Maybe it's the 20" wheels? Maybe it's the black on the side mirrors? Maybe it's the... I feel the same way about the BMW Z3 coupe. Saw one yesterday too. It's an awkward design and still that way today. It hasn't improved with time but due to its rarity is collectible nevertheless. Hmmm... Second gen 991?

TommyV44

If I were Porsche, I'd be concerned that there's any controversy. I'd rather have all of the potential customers liking the new model....not just some.

I know......with every new 911 we have the same issue..........not with the 997. Does anyone remember that happening with the gorgeous design of that car?

Tom

SSST

It's not just you. There is something not quite right abou it. It's not a bad looking car, but there are a couple of awkward spots. Especially the rear. Visually it doesnt seem to have the classic 911 squat. That's probably from moving the wheels out. The tailpipes in also look like an after thought. Not to mention the over badging. Those are easily easily fixed though.

I'm hoping the GT and Turbo models will add some appeal. The targa looks like it might be interesting.

As for the controversy... The 996 was as controversial, if not more so, than the 991. The 997 was more of a major refresh of the 996 than a complete redesign.

KBS911

Interesting comments. I agree. Everyone I know in our local PCA region that has driven the 991 has pretty much the same opinion. Nice car, but no one, including myself is passionate about it. The 991 GT3 might, and I hope will, change that. It's not that the car doesn't look good, I think it does, it's just that no one is gushing about it. It's just not a gotta have car that is making people jump to the new model. Real world sales figures will tell how well the new model is received. It's interesting that all of the so called Porsche purists that deride the Nissan GTR and Corvettes for their lack of feel, too heavy, too many electronic nannies, or not being a drivers car comments now think that it's OK in the new 911. There is a tipping point of no return that will bode ill for Porsche. Even the folks on the GT3 forum are talking about Corvetes now. Not good. I'll wait and see how the new GT3 turns out. If I'm not passionate about it then I'll keep my GTS and pick up a track car. BTW and FWIW I had more fun driving the new Boxster S than i did driving the 991S. Fun car.

alexb76

ARE YOU kidding me??? You haven't even DRIVEN the 991 and you're expert on all matters? Similar to how you are about 997?!

I mean come on guys, like Mike... this is beyond even the 991 fanboys, this guy's a troll and have played with you all for 10 pages. He's slowly trying to tone it down to make himself sound logical, but it's just become ridicolous.

I am in Stuttgart right now, working with Porsche consulting on a project. EVEN THEMSELVES have said that new 991 is now different, not as raw as it used to be, more GT, and designed to satisfy a new genre of buyers and satisfy green politics. Ofcourse that's not company official position, but it's what insiders know/say behind closed doors.

I am trying to organize a 991 drive at Nurburgring this week before I head back, slim chance, but if I can convince the head of Porsche club here, I can have some real track review at the king of all tracks!

End this non-sense please. 991 is more GT/softer/not as raw/not 911, etc... for some, while not for others... that's the bottom line. You will never agree (besides the trolls ofcourse).

TommyV44

Alex.....what do you care if people want to go back and forth on some thread about the 991 vs. 997?

Tom

hockeyguy

Only time will tell, but the old axiom may continue to prove true about 911's: every other one is good....just like Star Trek movies (2,4,6 being the good ones)....

Mike in CA

My reading of Quad's posts is not that he's trying to come off as an expert on the 991 or 997, but that he has little tolerance for bad logic and silly or repetitive arguments; I have to admit there are some that bug me too. IAE, he has as much right to express his opinion as anyone else.

The 997 vs 991 thing keeps coming up so it must be what people want to talk about even though, as you point out, there will never be agreement from everyone. We'll continue to get good comments and bad arguments, and people expressing their thoughts about both. Alex, you can always look away....

Palmbeacher

No, that's something you seem to be wanting to establish, as a means perhaps of trying to discredit, in your mind, the validity of my assertions. That Florida, specifically South Florida, is the 2nd-largest market for Porsche in the USA is a fact that is easy to verify. That few if any 991 cars have been seen thus far on the roads here has been substantiated by several other posters. Asserting that one cannot infer poor sales from that fact (and, the word of dealership personnel, who have nothing to gain and everything to lose by publicizing it if it weren't true) suggests you are most ill-informed. Furthermore, the lack of 991s on the roads here acts as a deterrent to potential buyers. People here are used to seeing new models of high-end cars appear on the roads almost instantly upon introduction are notably suspicious when one new model does not...perceptions mean everything to sales.

ROTFLMAO. I bet that's exactly what Madoff's customers said.

No, I did not imply it. I stated it unequivocally.

I'm not conversant in American sports analogies, but I suppose you understand the gist of it in an albeit simplistic working-class redneck way. Factually, the Supreme Court is supposed to rule on the basis of constitutional law, period. I agree they are not supposed to be activists...which is exactly why I find their decision so egregious. Like a magician who puts an egg into his top-hat, taps it with his wand, and a dove flies out, the court transformed a mandate into a tax. Show me a man who asserts that doesn't reek of the sort of manipulative shenanigans typical of the elected branches of the government, and I'll show you an idiot...or a liberal, the two being largely synonymous.

Here we both agree. The last and only true 911 was...surprise! The 911! Every generation after it has been a departure in one way or another. What's "simply laughable" (no, actually it's quite disgusting) is Porsche's shameless pandering by deceptively placing a "911" badge on the rear deck. The 997 is not "the last true 911". The 997 is quite far from a "true 911". But it is also true that the 991 is a step further away still.

Mbiondo

Did anyone catch the Spain vs Italy Euro 2012 Final?