gota911

I know there are a couple of other threads which discuss the Hawk Ceramic pads. But they are mostly about the 997.1, with a few 997.2 posts mixed in., so I though I would post specifically about the 997.2.

The part numbers for Hawk Ceramic Brake Pads for the 997.2 cars are:

• Front HB667Z.622
• Rear HB664Z.634

Since I have never swapped brake pads prior to today, I followed the DIY on Renntech.org. The DIY threads for the 997.1 and those instructions will also work for the 997.2 pads, so I will not rehash the DIY process.

The only reason I changed pads is because I am so tired of the excessive amount of brake dust that the OEM pads generate.

Here are a couple of pics of my OEM and Hawk pads. The OEM pads have 49,597 miles on them. Pics #1 and #2 are the front pads which could probably go another 25K miles. The rear pads, pic #3, are still about the same thickness as the new Hawk pads.

I have one question for the group. I notice that the brake pedal is now a little softer than before I changed the pads. Is it possible that when compressing the pads that I introduced some air into the brake system? If so, is there an easy way to eliminate it?

Over the course of the next few weeks I will post updates about the amount of brake dust the new ceramic pads generate and also report on the about the braking efficiency of the pads.

Cbst09

I installed the same pads and did not experience any difference in pedal feel. My existing pads were much thicker than yours so I didn't have to compress the piston nearly as much as you had to. I'm not sure about introducing air into your brake line but a simple solution would be to do a short brake bleed from each of the calipers. No need to bleed the entire system since if you did introduce air the bubbles are probably in the caliper itself or very close to it so just a bleed of about 50ml per caliper should do the trick. Just to be sure, sometimes folks loosen the brake reservoir cap prior to compressing the caliper pistons. You did tighten it back up right?

BTW just curious I did not reuse my vibration dampers, did you reuse yours or just leave them off? I have no squealing but it just feels wrong to have something left off of the car.

AlohaCS

I previously did some research online on ceramic pads hoping to reduce brake dust and it seems from some forum posts that some aftermarket ceramic pads aren't quite as responsive and require more pedal pressure than others. I don't know if the anecdotal information is accurate, but if you search ceramic pads, I think you'll find some who have echoed your experience.

gota911

I did not loosen the brake reservoir cap at all.

I reused the vibration dampers.

user 72902

You did not allow any air into the system from what you've described. Even if you had removed the reservoir cap the tank would have had to gone empty to introduce air.

gota911

JW,

I didn't think there was any way air could have gotten in, but I can't figure out why the pedal is softer now and requires a little more pedal travel for the brakes to begin to bite.

Any thoughts?

josephmonaco924

I'm no expert but from what I have read you are likely experiencing the characteristics of ceramic pads. I believe you are going to have less brake performance because the pads are not reaching ideal temperatures when not racing. The pads also need to conform to your routers, which were worn or grooved by the previous pads.

semicycler

I've used Hawk and EBC Red Stuff for daily drivers before. On BMW's the OEM pads grip real well with light pressure giving off tons of dust. Look at the front wheels on many non-enthusiast's BMW's - they're black!. Switching to Hawk's significantly reduced the dusting but required more pressure on the brake pedal. Some normal stopping distance was sacrificed, but panic stops were about equal. It was a fair tradeoff for me.

Some solutions in order of expense:
1. Brake fluid flush - not likely to do much for you but couldn't hurt. If you DIY it it's cheap. You should flush every two years or so for a daily driver anyway. Check the maintenance schedule.
2. Stainless steel braided brake lines - replacing the OEM rubber ones does tighten up the pedal feel
3. Upgrade to 6-pot turbo calipers and larger diameter rotors or aftermarket big brake kit - pushes the braking "lever" further out on the wheel radius requiring less force on the brake pedal. You are in the $1500 to $2000 per axle range here.
4. OEM ceramic rotors and matching pads - imperceptible amounts of dust, fantastic braking, lowers your sprung weight meaning faster accelerations, but holy expensive! North of $10K installed, perhaps higher. Every now and again used/barely used rotors show up in the marketplace for less.

StormRune

I'm running these too. They may require a little more pressure when cold was what I thought I observed but it was barely noticeable to me. Assuming you put these on without changing or resurfacing your rotors, they may require a few dozen miles to become fully mated up with any slight variation in the surface shape (the rotor wear surface wouldn't have been 100% flat due to wear from the previous pads).

Did you follow the official bedding procedure? It doesn't come described in the box as I recall, you have to be aware that it exists and look it up online. Here it is from their website:
In any case, I don't notice any problems, but that could be because I've gotten used to any differences that may be there.

There is no way you can get air into the line during a typical installation like you performed. The only problem that you may want to check for would be getting the brake reservoir too full by pushing too much fluid back into it... putting it above the recommended Max level. Again, this wouldn't explain any softness. If it is too full, a turkey baster can be used to suck it out (but don't use on your turkey ever again!), are a brake bleeding line can be used to siphon it. Justbe careful not to drip any on your paint since it damages paint quickly.

gota911

Semi - I just had a brake fluid flush 3 months ago, so that is not the issue.

Storm - Thanks for posting the Bed-in / Burnishing Instructions. I haven't driven the car much since the new pads were installed. I'll follow the Bed-in / Burnishing Instructions later today.

Thanks to everyone!

MessyMarvin

I may put the same pads on my car, the dust drives me nuts, let me know how you make out.

Any chance you can share where you bought them? Also how difficult was the install?

Thank you!!

StormRune

Before I went out to wash the car, I thought I'd share this...

To get an idea of how conservative the dusting is with the Hawk Ceramics, here are closeups of my front wheel (1st photo) and back wheel (2nd photo) after two weeks and probably somewhere around 300 to 350 miles of around-town driving. One thing to note is with normal pads the front wheel is normally much darker than the back wheel, especially around the outer rim. Here you can tell a little difference but not a lot. Note that the barrels stayed pretty clean too.

This was all dry weather driving (maybe a faint mist one day) which helps, but still this is really really good. Note that the first several drives after installation you will get a little more dust and it will lessen as they settle in, but it will still be better than OEM. Also note that I didn't do too much hard core driving during those couple of weeks (for a C2S anyway, maybe more aggressive compared to other drivers ). I'll show a little more dusting after a hard core drive.

I'd suggest googling around for the best price on any given day. Some places had better prices for front, some for back, and some charge more for shipping. There are a lot of variables. I got mine from Stillen at these prices:

MessyMarvin

Wow those look great!!!

This is on my short list now

mdrums

997.1 and 997.2 Carrera S brakes are the exact same...FYI.

Different pads feel different....you can introduce air into the system by just swapping pads out. Whe. You swap pads...pump the brakes like 10 times until pressure builds back up and then go drive the car. Be aware that you will need to seat the new pads to the rotors and to transfer pad the new pad material to the rotor. Until this is done the brake will not grad the rotors as good as they can.

gota911

Thanks, Mike!