Porsche is losing me...
02-02-2016, 04:40 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
There are three factors in play causing all of the changes.
1. Fuel Economy regulation
Porsche has absolutely no choice to play ball! What I don't understand is why not leave 911 lower numbers alone and focus on their passenger cars mostly? To me, it's more to create the *green perception* and to be politically correct in this crazy PC climate that Porsche has to lower Fuel Economy across all models.
2. Consumer is changing:
It used to be that only enthusiasts in certain segments of population mostly in Europe and North America purchased Porsche or other sports cars. Over the last 10-15 yrs this segment has been replaced by new wealthy customers from Asia and Middle East. The new customers taste and preference is different, and they value comfort, luxury, and brand new gadgets vs. purists of the past that valued legacy, rawness of a car, worked on their own cars, and didn't care about luxury in a *sports car*. It's also generational, and consumerism. People change their possessions (cars, electronics, clothes, etc...) a lot more often than the past. Hence, they rather get a new Porsche with X.Y new feature every 3-5 years than enjoying a robust bullet-proof Porsche for 10-20 years.
3. Porsche corporate owners (VW) are not enthusiasts
Jeremy Clarkson hit it on the head that the old school car makers, specially Italian, and I'd like to add Porsche to it too, were building cars as they LOVED to build cars. The engineers and designers built cars rather than marketers and MBAs. Some outlandish cars never made money and it was just the passion of one engineer/designer to get some project started. In today's corporate world, specially under VW, this is no longer possible. All future builds of every Porsche has to be market tested, meet the regulation of the countries it will be used in, make X% profit for each car sold, and to appeal to the largest possible #of buyers hence it maximizes the return for shareholders. This results in watered down products as enthusiasts are a very small part of the market.
Basically, Porsche used to be a low production line of cars built for enthusiasts only BY enthusiasts. It's no longer such a company, they are a mass producing car company part of the largest automaker in the world that caters their products for the new wealthy across the globe. The only enthusiast products they make are the GT3 variants (even those are kinda watered down), which is mostly out of the reach of old school enthusiasts.
1. Fuel Economy regulation
Porsche has absolutely no choice to play ball! What I don't understand is why not leave 911 lower numbers alone and focus on their passenger cars mostly? To me, it's more to create the *green perception* and to be politically correct in this crazy PC climate that Porsche has to lower Fuel Economy across all models.
2. Consumer is changing:
It used to be that only enthusiasts in certain segments of population mostly in Europe and North America purchased Porsche or other sports cars. Over the last 10-15 yrs this segment has been replaced by new wealthy customers from Asia and Middle East. The new customers taste and preference is different, and they value comfort, luxury, and brand new gadgets vs. purists of the past that valued legacy, rawness of a car, worked on their own cars, and didn't care about luxury in a *sports car*. It's also generational, and consumerism. People change their possessions (cars, electronics, clothes, etc...) a lot more often than the past. Hence, they rather get a new Porsche with X.Y new feature every 3-5 years than enjoying a robust bullet-proof Porsche for 10-20 years.
3. Porsche corporate owners (VW) are not enthusiasts
Jeremy Clarkson hit it on the head that the old school car makers, specially Italian, and I'd like to add Porsche to it too, were building cars as they LOVED to build cars. The engineers and designers built cars rather than marketers and MBAs. Some outlandish cars never made money and it was just the passion of one engineer/designer to get some project started. In today's corporate world, specially under VW, this is no longer possible. All future builds of every Porsche has to be market tested, meet the regulation of the countries it will be used in, make X% profit for each car sold, and to appeal to the largest possible #of buyers hence it maximizes the return for shareholders. This results in watered down products as enthusiasts are a very small part of the market.
Basically, Porsche used to be a low production line of cars built for enthusiasts only BY enthusiasts. It's no longer such a company, they are a mass producing car company part of the largest automaker in the world that caters their products for the new wealthy across the globe. The only enthusiast products they make are the GT3 variants (even those are kinda watered down), which is mostly out of the reach of old school enthusiasts.
02-02-2016, 07:57 PM
#62
I actually really like the 250 awd. Its a small, entry luxury car.
its generally quiet, typically smooth (maybe you got a friday car), reliable, and it drives well (handling is not an interest to buyers).
The guy who cares about handling will always take the BMW. The guy who buys the lexus doesn't care about the handling.
To be honest though, in having spent a lot of time in that car, I didn't have any of the issues you did.
its generally quiet, typically smooth (maybe you got a friday car), reliable, and it drives well (handling is not an interest to buyers).
The guy who cares about handling will always take the BMW. The guy who buys the lexus doesn't care about the handling.
To be honest though, in having spent a lot of time in that car, I didn't have any of the issues you did.
02-02-2016, 08:15 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Bruce In Philly
I have always said "Enthusiasts make the brand, posers make the money". How are enthusiasts supposed to continue the brand image when we can't afford their cars?
I think Porsche is making a long-term mistake. They are cashing out on their brand. But can they maintain both the price and volume without support of the enthusiast? Maybe...... Ferrari can't do it... they can't do the volume so they niche themselves purely into the poser market.... they succeed but only at smaller volumes.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
I think Porsche is making a long-term mistake. They are cashing out on their brand. But can they maintain both the price and volume without support of the enthusiast? Maybe...... Ferrari can't do it... they can't do the volume so they niche themselves purely into the poser market.... they succeed but only at smaller volumes.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
02-02-2016, 08:30 PM
#64
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Visited some friends in Dallas this past weekend. My buddy bought his wife a new Lexus RCF. We took a short ride, and it seemed like a nice car. Hard to tell much from the short ride, but it seems different in a good way from other Lexus cars I've experienced.
02-03-2016, 06:47 AM
#65
Intermediate
Join Date: Jan 2016
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Remember the days the Boxster concept was announced - what a nightmare - an entry Porsche - , the 996, what? a water-cooled engine, not possible as a Porsche is air cooled! What a Cayenne, why we need that as the only Porsche is a 911... Think it is al about evolution and Porsche is no else than others that they want to sell cars and make profit. Also, the emission criteria are getting more strict every year where technical solutions introduced are not always what we want to see. For the new 991 turbo charged cars; drive it and see if it is fit for you. If not, there are other sport cars brands to pick - but they suffer from the same problem. I am a Porschist since 1993 and tried 2 times Ferrari but quickly came back to Porsche. What I don't like in current Porsches is that they seem to be more GT oriented so Jaguar or BMW drivers might but a Porsche as next car where the Porsche purists who are in for the real Porsche sports car are forced to opt for a GT3 to get their thrill. Nothing wrong with that as the Porsche gamma is wide so everybody could find a car that fits. I have driven the 991.2 and for me it drives very good. However it does not make me decide to get rid of my "old" 997.1
02-03-2016, 04:52 PM
#66
I have a 2006 Lexus GS 300 AWD, and while it's no sports car, it has been an excellent car. Not one problem in ten years and very capable in all weather situations. The cabin is extremely quiet, comfortable, and well built. Engine is smooth. The Mark Levinson sound system is leagues better than my wife's brand new Infiniti SUV. With the right tires on it, the car is really fun to drive around for such a large/heavy car. Not sure why you are so down on Lexus. IMO, they know exactly what they are. It's not supposed to be a 911 in sedan form.
02-03-2016, 05:02 PM
#67
Burning Brakes
Bruce. You're a bit off the mark here. Check out Ferrari's 10k. ~70% of their rev is from licensing and merch. That's why Ferrari can't do it. They dilute the brand they lose the image and all the merch/licensing sales. That's why you won't see a Ferrari SUV and the day you do, their stock will be a out of the money for any investors.
http://www.businessinsider.de/ferrari-shares-drop-after-earnings-2016-2?r=US&IR=T
02-05-2016, 09:41 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
I have a 2006 Lexus GS 300 AWD, and while it's no sports car, it has been an excellent car. Not one problem in ten years and very capable in all weather situations. The cabin is extremely quiet, comfortable, and well built. Engine is smooth. The Mark Levinson sound system is leagues better than my wife's brand new Infiniti SUV. With the right tires on it, the car is really fun to drive around for such a large/heavy car. Not sure why you are so down on Lexus. IMO, they know exactly what they are. It's not supposed to be a 911 in sedan form.
04-12-2016, 02:48 PM
#69
However, some "smarter" consumers want the higher priced car. Take Toyota's Lexus brand, the ES 350 is a glorified Camry. If you want it, it's there for you to buy. Some consumers are fine with purchasing a "status" car when a generic "twin" is available at a lower price.
Anyway, I digress - I love my Porsche for me, but am glad my wife and kids are in the LX for the reliability.
04-12-2016, 07:24 PM
#72
