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where’s the best place to place a jack on the mez motor.
The center where the case halves meet is plenty strong to support the weight of the engine.... There is a crash tab on the engine cases close to the flywheel end. I have a friend that would jack the rear of his car up using the crash tab. Some air cooled guys (myself included) use the center of the cases to jack the car. I don't practice that on the GT3 because there are plenty of places on the body to jack.
I may have missed this, but is it ONLY the intake cam adjuster bolts that are subject to coming loose on the 7.2 or the exhaust cam adjusters as well?
I bought a virgin 19k mile 7.2GT3 last year and have only driven it 15 miles to my house where it has sat since. On the short drive I have noticed that the 3.8 is very buzzy in the mid rpm range. I have another car with a built 4.0L Mezger using 106mm Mahle Motorsport pistons and a 76mm 991Cup crank, RSR IMS, fixed exhaust cams, etc, etc. The pistons are balanced within 1g of one another and the engine is far far smoother at all rpms and it's hard mounted to the chassis on both the engine and gearbox side. The 3.6 Mezgers are quite smooth also. I wonder what inherently makes the 3.8 so poor from a harmonic standpoint. The DMFW on the non-RS 3.8 mitigates the issues a bit but in my opinion makes the engine feel like a complete dud at the same time.
To follow up on my previous post from 2022. The buzziness in the midrange on my 7.2 that I initially experienced is complete gone now that CTS replaced the stock DMFW clutch assembly with a 4.0RS LWFW clutch assembly and the 3.89R&P. It'a a significant and noticeable improvement in smoothness on all accounts. Just another data point.
Last edited by powdrhound; 01-31-2024 at 09:29 PM.
why hasn’t every shop done this? Like tpc and such? Is there a downside? Just the 5 bolts on the intake and exhaust
The only conceivable downside is you can't disassemble it anymore but the adjusters aren't supposed to be ever disassembled anyway, so no, there is no downside. My shop has full CNC machining capability so drilling it out to a 7mm bolts was doable but the simple question is why when you can simply tack each bolt in place and call it a day. Sometimes the simple obvious solution is overlooked in place of a more complicated one.
I have a 992 S with a totaled engine due to Cam Adjuster bolt coming loose and flying around under the cover. Only 12,800 miles. Warranty reman motor approved now evidently, but pretty amazing Porsche has not fixed this problem in all these years of issues with this. No one had heard of a 992 S model having this issue, but reading here it seems like a pretty common problem historically.
I can’t answer your question, but they did “bulletproof” my bolts. I don’t know exactly all that it entails outside if having a piece machined. I didn’t pry too much as it seemed proprietary and I very much trust their expertise. I’ve got about 15k~ miles on the LWFW setup in my .2 without any issues.
My understanding was a damper sort of defeats the purpose of the setup as it hinders the revs a bit.
I read the entire thread a few weeks ago, my car came with the cam bolts welded when i bought it last year. Car also has 4.0 clutch and lightweight flywheel so I bought the ATI damper from Neil at performance developments and had it installed yesterday. I can confirm that it hinders the revs more than a "bit"....its almost like i dont even have a LWFW anymore.
My general thought after all this, stick with the DM fly wheel and save $2000 on the damper and $7000 on a clutch and LWFW as the results are the same.
I read the entire thread a few weeks ago, my car came with the cam bolts welded when i bought it last year. Car also has 4.0 clutch and lightweight flywheel so I bought the ATI damper from Neil at performance developments and had it installed yesterday. I can confirm that it hinders the revs more than a "bit"....its almost like i dont even have a LWFW anymore.
My general thought after all this, stick with the DM fly wheel and save $2000 on the damper and $7000 on a clutch and LWFW as the results are the same.
If you have the cam bolts welded, and you switch to the 4.0 clutch and LWFW is there really any need for the ATI damper? The main concern is the cam bolts backing out over time with the harmonics of the LWFW or is there something else as well to worry about?
If you have the cam bolts welded, and you switch to the 4.0 clutch and LWFW is there really any need for the ATI damper? The main concern is the cam bolts backing out over time with the harmonics of the LWFW or is there something else as well to worry about?
So I spoke to Neil at performance developments about this. He sounded like he knows a lot about these motors and a lot of guys here recommend him. He said the welded bolts will stop the bolts from backing out, but it doesn't stop the engine from being unbalanced with the LWFW under 4k rpms, the guys who he has rebuilt these engines for said their failures happen at freeway cruising speed and their response to Neil is always, the motor blew and I wasn't even driving it hard.
I imagine the failure rates are much lower than we think, but for the minor cost of the damper I said why the hell not?
So I spoke to Neil at performance developments about this. He sounded like he knows a lot about these motors and a lot of guys here recommend him. He said the welded bolts will stop the bolts from backing out, but it doesn't stop the engine from being unbalanced with the LWFW under 4k rpms, the guys who he has rebuilt these engines for said their failures happen at freeway cruising speed and their response to Neil is always, the motor blew and I wasn't even driving it hard.
I imagine the failure rates are much lower than we think, but for the minor cost of the damper I said why the hell not?
Good information to have about the motor. So as you said in a previous post, you would keep your DM flywheel and save the money on the 4.0 clutch/LWFW because of the ATI damper?
Good information to have about the motor. So as you said in a previous post, you would keep your DM flywheel and save the money on the 4.0 clutch/LWFW because of the ATI damper?
Luckily for me, the previous owner was the one who spent the money for the clutch and LWFW. But if my car was stock DM flywheel and clutch I'd just leave it as is. Ati damper negates 90% of what you get from the 4.0 clutch/LWFW
Luckily for me, the previous owner was the one who spent the money for the clutch and LWFW. But if my car was stock DM flywheel and clutch I'd just leave it as is. Ati damper negates 90% of what you get from the 4.0 clutch/LWFW
I have to argue. The 4.0 clutch isn't about flywheel weight, it's about the more robust design. What you get with a 4.0 clutch is a design that's less likely to fail prematurely, particularly if you're bad at rev matching. So 4.0 clutch has nothing to do with changing the rotating mass and issues with harmonic balancing. Two separate mods with different results.
IMHO, the LWFW was one of the best mods I made to the car in terms of the overall experience of the car.
I have to argue. The 4.0 clutch isn't about flywheel weight, it's about the more robust design. What you get with a 4.0 clutch is a design that's less likely to fail prematurely, particularly if you're bad at rev matching. So 4.0 clutch has nothing to do with changing the rotating mass and issues with harmonic balancing. Two separate mods with different results.
Hey John, I agree with you on that and stand corrected. I guess I was just lumping them together as most people do the 4.0 clutch with the LWFW.
My corrected opinion is I wouldn't install a LWFW if you pair with harmonic damper from ATI as it negates almost all the benefits of a LWFW
Different builders will give you different opinions. I think people have created a problem that really does not exist. My engine builder backs this up. Sure there may have been issues but statistically they are insignificant. The few issues seem to be blown out of proportion on the internet agains a backdrop of all the people that have the LFWF 4.0 set up and don't have issues and as such don't post about it not having issues. I have the 4.0 LWFW set up and the engine actually feels significantly smoother than it did with the DMFW. I hated how the engine felt lethargic with the DMFW and love how it feels with the 4.0 set up. Not quite like my 5.5" triple carbon clutch on my race Mezger but still miles better than the DMFW. I enjoy the hell out of the car with the 4.0 set up. If it breaks, I'll fix it. There is much more important shiat I can spend my time worrying about than my cam bolts backing out.
Last edited by powdrhound; 04-19-2024 at 12:28 AM.
01-31-2024, 02:33 PM
