GT3RS - Full Clubsport Build
08-15-2023, 05:20 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
Contact Hytorc direct. They offer a few different reaction arm designs for other LION impact guns. Not shown on the site, but I would contact them directly. The Aussie site shows a shorter arm when viewing this link. Scroll down a bit to see the accessories.
https://hytorc.com/au/lion-gun
https://hytorc.com/au/lion-gun
08-16-2023, 12:19 AM
#62
Rennlist Member
Nitto Tire Request Submitted.
08-17-2023, 06:23 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Contact Hytorc direct. They offer a few different reaction arm designs for other LION impact guns. Not shown on the site, but I would contact them directly. The Aussie site shows a shorter arm when viewing this link. Scroll down a bit to see the accessories.
https://hytorc.com/au/lion-gun
https://hytorc.com/au/lion-gun
Anybody else that has these, just reach out to hytorc and your area rep will get in touch with you quickly. If you live in KY, IN, or OH, this is the guy to contact.
02-23-2024, 10:01 AM
#65
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Quick update on some things after the LSD testing.
1. My initial issues/concerns with the Ohlins TTX were right, both rear shocks were messed up from the get-go, and were leaking oil at the piston shaft seals, and something was wrong internally with the adjusters. Very untypical of Ohlins, they were brand new shocks, so I guess whoever built them was hungover, lol. Anyway, those were sent off to Ohlins to be fixed.
2. The LSD testing with stock 28/40 and Guard 40/60 ramps was quite interesting, and ultimately worth the effort. Initially the testing of the 28/40 ramps with the Guard cone springs (pre-load) and clutch pack kit was very good, car was very neutral on coast/brake, and had good lock on most corners, however, in slower 2nd gear corners where the car really loads up gripthe car would exhibit some odd behavior where you could feel the diff locking and then it would bleed off the lock. My suspicion was that the pre-load was at or near the same locking power of the 28/40 ramps, and once pre-load was exceeded (which is when the ramps come into play to provide more locking), that it was simply unable to provide more lock beyond the pre-load.I spoke with Matt at Guard about this, and he said that is exactly how he would expect that setup to perform. He said basically once you exceed the max locking capability, it just bleeds off lock and goes partly open again at the limit.
So, we swapped in the 40/60 ramps and went testing again. This cured all the slow corner issues, along with providing more locking in general, which was a familiar setup from my previous RS. While it no doubt changes the driving style a bit, the difference wasn't as dramatic as I expected, which does indeed prove that using upgraded clutch-packs/cone springs with 28/40 ramps does work nicely, but only up to a point. It's basically a mid-point between stock and full Guard setup. Also, the new grooved/slotted friction discs seem to offer more progressive locking than the older version, which is actually very beneficial. I find it to be much easier to drive, and is alot less "off-on" type of action. That is a very nice improvement on Guard's behalf.
In theory, you could spec some cone springs from Guard that fell in between their "standard" setup, and the OE ones, which would work better with stock ramps, but after testing both, I feel like it will be a compromise that isn't worth the effort, to find a middle ground in terms of locking.
So from my testing, I think the best use of the rebuild kits are:
1. Use just the Guard/Racing Diffs clutch-packs with stock ramps and stock cone springs (which would offer some very mild additional locking via better friction discs).
2. Use the entire Guard/Racing diffs clutch-pack, cone springs, and Guard 40/60 ramps. Both Racing Diffs and Guard clutch packs have grooves now, that let oil in between the plates, to provide a more progressive action.
1. My initial issues/concerns with the Ohlins TTX were right, both rear shocks were messed up from the get-go, and were leaking oil at the piston shaft seals, and something was wrong internally with the adjusters. Very untypical of Ohlins, they were brand new shocks, so I guess whoever built them was hungover, lol. Anyway, those were sent off to Ohlins to be fixed.
2. The LSD testing with stock 28/40 and Guard 40/60 ramps was quite interesting, and ultimately worth the effort. Initially the testing of the 28/40 ramps with the Guard cone springs (pre-load) and clutch pack kit was very good, car was very neutral on coast/brake, and had good lock on most corners, however, in slower 2nd gear corners where the car really loads up gripthe car would exhibit some odd behavior where you could feel the diff locking and then it would bleed off the lock. My suspicion was that the pre-load was at or near the same locking power of the 28/40 ramps, and once pre-load was exceeded (which is when the ramps come into play to provide more locking), that it was simply unable to provide more lock beyond the pre-load.I spoke with Matt at Guard about this, and he said that is exactly how he would expect that setup to perform. He said basically once you exceed the max locking capability, it just bleeds off lock and goes partly open again at the limit.
So, we swapped in the 40/60 ramps and went testing again. This cured all the slow corner issues, along with providing more locking in general, which was a familiar setup from my previous RS. While it no doubt changes the driving style a bit, the difference wasn't as dramatic as I expected, which does indeed prove that using upgraded clutch-packs/cone springs with 28/40 ramps does work nicely, but only up to a point. It's basically a mid-point between stock and full Guard setup. Also, the new grooved/slotted friction discs seem to offer more progressive locking than the older version, which is actually very beneficial. I find it to be much easier to drive, and is alot less "off-on" type of action. That is a very nice improvement on Guard's behalf.
In theory, you could spec some cone springs from Guard that fell in between their "standard" setup, and the OE ones, which would work better with stock ramps, but after testing both, I feel like it will be a compromise that isn't worth the effort, to find a middle ground in terms of locking.
So from my testing, I think the best use of the rebuild kits are:
1. Use just the Guard/Racing Diffs clutch-packs with stock ramps and stock cone springs (which would offer some very mild additional locking via better friction discs).
2. Use the entire Guard/Racing diffs clutch-pack, cone springs, and Guard 40/60 ramps. Both Racing Diffs and Guard clutch packs have grooves now, that let oil in between the plates, to provide a more progressive action.
Last edited by Mvez; 02-23-2024 at 10:02 AM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Mvez:
SupraSaiyan (02-23-2024),
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02-24-2024, 07:37 AM
#66
Quick update on some things after the LSD testing.
1. My initial issues/concerns with the Ohlins TTX were right, both rear shocks were messed up from the get-go, and were leaking oil at the piston shaft seals, and something was wrong internally with the adjusters. Very untypical of Ohlins, they were brand new shocks, so I guess whoever built them was hungover, lol. Anyway, those were sent off to Ohlins to be fixed.
2. The LSD testing with stock 28/40 and Guard 40/60 ramps was quite interesting, and ultimately worth the effort. Initially the testing of the 28/40 ramps with the Guard cone springs (pre-load) and clutch pack kit was very good, car was very neutral on coast/brake, and had good lock on most corners, however, in slower 2nd gear corners where the car really loads up gripthe car would exhibit some odd behavior where you could feel the diff locking and then it would bleed off the lock. My suspicion was that the pre-load was at or near the same locking power of the 28/40 ramps, and once pre-load was exceeded (which is when the ramps come into play to provide more locking), that it was simply unable to provide more lock beyond the pre-load.I spoke with Matt at Guard about this, and he said that is exactly how he would expect that setup to perform. He said basically once you exceed the max locking capability, it just bleeds off lock and goes partly open again at the limit.
So, we swapped in the 40/60 ramps and went testing again. This cured all the slow corner issues, along with providing more locking in general, which was a familiar setup from my previous RS. While it no doubt changes the driving style a bit, the difference wasn't as dramatic as I expected, which does indeed prove that using upgraded clutch-packs/cone springs with 28/40 ramps does work nicely, but only up to a point. It's basically a mid-point between stock and full Guard setup. Also, the new grooved/slotted friction discs seem to offer more progressive locking than the older version, which is actually very beneficial. I find it to be much easier to drive, and is alot less "off-on" type of action. That is a very nice improvement on Guard's behalf.
In theory, you could spec some cone springs from Guard that fell in between their "standard" setup, and the OE ones, which would work better with stock ramps, but after testing both, I feel like it will be a compromise that isn't worth the effort, to find a middle ground in terms of locking.
So from my testing, I think the best use of the rebuild kits are:
1. Use just the Guard/Racing Diffs clutch-packs with stock ramps and stock cone springs (which would offer some very mild additional locking via better friction discs).
2. Use the entire Guard/Racing diffs clutch-pack, cone springs, and Guard 40/60 ramps. Both Racing Diffs and Guard clutch packs have grooves now, that let oil in between the plates, to provide a more progressive action.
1. My initial issues/concerns with the Ohlins TTX were right, both rear shocks were messed up from the get-go, and were leaking oil at the piston shaft seals, and something was wrong internally with the adjusters. Very untypical of Ohlins, they were brand new shocks, so I guess whoever built them was hungover, lol. Anyway, those were sent off to Ohlins to be fixed.
2. The LSD testing with stock 28/40 and Guard 40/60 ramps was quite interesting, and ultimately worth the effort. Initially the testing of the 28/40 ramps with the Guard cone springs (pre-load) and clutch pack kit was very good, car was very neutral on coast/brake, and had good lock on most corners, however, in slower 2nd gear corners where the car really loads up gripthe car would exhibit some odd behavior where you could feel the diff locking and then it would bleed off the lock. My suspicion was that the pre-load was at or near the same locking power of the 28/40 ramps, and once pre-load was exceeded (which is when the ramps come into play to provide more locking), that it was simply unable to provide more lock beyond the pre-load.I spoke with Matt at Guard about this, and he said that is exactly how he would expect that setup to perform. He said basically once you exceed the max locking capability, it just bleeds off lock and goes partly open again at the limit.
So, we swapped in the 40/60 ramps and went testing again. This cured all the slow corner issues, along with providing more locking in general, which was a familiar setup from my previous RS. While it no doubt changes the driving style a bit, the difference wasn't as dramatic as I expected, which does indeed prove that using upgraded clutch-packs/cone springs with 28/40 ramps does work nicely, but only up to a point. It's basically a mid-point between stock and full Guard setup. Also, the new grooved/slotted friction discs seem to offer more progressive locking than the older version, which is actually very beneficial. I find it to be much easier to drive, and is alot less "off-on" type of action. That is a very nice improvement on Guard's behalf.
In theory, you could spec some cone springs from Guard that fell in between their "standard" setup, and the OE ones, which would work better with stock ramps, but after testing both, I feel like it will be a compromise that isn't worth the effort, to find a middle ground in terms of locking.
So from my testing, I think the best use of the rebuild kits are:
1. Use just the Guard/Racing Diffs clutch-packs with stock ramps and stock cone springs (which would offer some very mild additional locking via better friction discs).
2. Use the entire Guard/Racing diffs clutch-pack, cone springs, and Guard 40/60 ramps. Both Racing Diffs and Guard clutch packs have grooves now, that let oil in between the plates, to provide a more progressive action.
Very interesting !
I installed a 40/60 Guards a year ago so guess it was the same unit as yours. Following your initial posts I found also that my 28/40 was much easier to drive on the road with more options in the corner. ( I timed my car on a local hillclimb on the original 28/40 and Shot PS4S as fast as my 40/60 with new Cup2 ! )
I drive my 3.8RS 90% on small rally roads in rural France, installed the 40/60 and raised a bit the car but keeping the same alignement and car was so much more lock in. It became a true 911 to drive, keeping strong brake pressure until mid corner and accelerate early. Which on a racetrack is amazing, but on small roads i felt less confident initially. I am very curious as what alignement you are running and what sway position you have, cause i was thinking of going back 28/40 with my guards units but now i am in full doubt ahahah !
I would better try a different alignment and sway set up than change the ramps again.
Thanks a lot for you detailed feedback !
02-26-2024, 09:51 AM
#67
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Very interesting !
I installed a 40/60 Guards a year ago so guess it was the same unit as yours. Following your initial posts I found also that my 28/40 was much easier to drive on the road with more options in the corner. ( I timed my car on a local hillclimb on the original 28/40 and Shot PS4S as fast as my 40/60 with new Cup2 ! )
I drive my 3.8RS 90% on small rally roads in rural France, installed the 40/60 and raised a bit the car but keeping the same alignement and car was so much more lock in. It became a true 911 to drive, keeping strong brake pressure until mid corner and accelerate early. Which on a racetrack is amazing, but on small roads i felt less confident initially. I am very curious as what alignement you are running and what sway position you have, cause i was thinking of going back 28/40 with my guards units but now i am in full doubt ahahah !
I would better try a different alignment and sway set up than change the ramps again.
Thanks a lot for you detailed feedback !
I installed a 40/60 Guards a year ago so guess it was the same unit as yours. Following your initial posts I found also that my 28/40 was much easier to drive on the road with more options in the corner. ( I timed my car on a local hillclimb on the original 28/40 and Shot PS4S as fast as my 40/60 with new Cup2 ! )
I drive my 3.8RS 90% on small rally roads in rural France, installed the 40/60 and raised a bit the car but keeping the same alignement and car was so much more lock in. It became a true 911 to drive, keeping strong brake pressure until mid corner and accelerate early. Which on a racetrack is amazing, but on small roads i felt less confident initially. I am very curious as what alignement you are running and what sway position you have, cause i was thinking of going back 28/40 with my guards units but now i am in full doubt ahahah !
I would better try a different alignment and sway set up than change the ramps again.
Thanks a lot for you detailed feedback !
I'm glad I tested them, but will def. be sticking with the 40/60 setup. The additional lock really helps to get the car rotated from apex off. With the 28/40 the car is more free on entry and you let it coast more, but it doesn't rotate nearly as much from apex to corner exit.
I think the car is also more lively and fun with the 40/60.
Running on 245 and 325 OE size tires, my setup is:
-4 front, zero toe
-2.7 rear, .17 deg toe in each side
Full soft front sway
Full stiff rear sway
The following users liked this post:
Hadrien* (02-27-2024)
02-26-2024, 01:59 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
I agree on the street the 40/60 tends to steer the car with just throttle input and it's trickier in the wet, but those small negatives are far outweighed by the positives on the track.
I'm glad I tested them, but will def. be sticking with the 40/60 setup. The additional lock really helps to get the car rotated from apex off. With the 28/40 the car is more free on entry and you let it coast more, but it doesn't rotate nearly as much from apex to corner exit.
I think the car is also more lively and fun with the 40/60.
Running on 245 and 325 OE size tires, my setup is:
-4 front, zero toe
-2.7 rear, .17 deg toe in each side
Full soft front sway
Full stiff rear sway
I'm glad I tested them, but will def. be sticking with the 40/60 setup. The additional lock really helps to get the car rotated from apex off. With the 28/40 the car is more free on entry and you let it coast more, but it doesn't rotate nearly as much from apex to corner exit.
I think the car is also more lively and fun with the 40/60.
Running on 245 and 325 OE size tires, my setup is:
-4 front, zero toe
-2.7 rear, .17 deg toe in each side
Full soft front sway
Full stiff rear sway
02-26-2024, 10:25 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Typically Guard pre-load is around 80-90 ft-lbs new, and then it settles in about 65 ft-lb or so. I remember a lot of the Florida guys ran the Cup diffs back in the day with great results too, as they would simply re-pack their diffs with Cup internals.
If one can source the 997 cup internals, that would certainly be a solid option as well. I would just assume those parts are hard and/or more expensive to source, but I could be wrong.
Last edited by Mvez; 02-26-2024 at 10:27 PM.
02-27-2024, 03:10 AM
#70
I believe it's a 40/65 ramp setup, but I don't remember the typical pre-load settings. Their friction discs were a little different than Guards too, but not to say they were inferior. I think it was just a different composition.
Typically Guard pre-load is around 80-90 ft-lbs new, and then it settles in about 65 ft-lb or so. I remember a lot of the Florida guys ran the Cup diffs back in the day with great results too, as they would simply re-pack their diffs with Cup internals.
If one can source the 997 cup internals, that would certainly be a solid option as well. I would just assume those parts are hard and/or more expensive to source, but I could be wrong.
Typically Guard pre-load is around 80-90 ft-lbs new, and then it settles in about 65 ft-lb or so. I remember a lot of the Florida guys ran the Cup diffs back in the day with great results too, as they would simply re-pack their diffs with Cup internals.
If one can source the 997 cup internals, that would certainly be a solid option as well. I would just assume those parts are hard and/or more expensive to source, but I could be wrong.
Thanks for the set-up, i do agree with your statement that the 28/40 is more entry free and better for coasting, I still drive a 997 cup from time to time so my RS never see the racetrack.
Will keep the 40/60 and try your set-up for now and see.
Thanks for your feedback !