GT3 / GTRS test drive comparison..... there is a noticeable difference...

[allegretto]

Originally Posted by Nick

Colm, obviously your into cars but apparently not into Mini's. If you investigate the Mini, you will find it is one of the safest cars on the road.

With respect to the CGT being more "solid" than a 430, need I remind you what material the CGT chassis is made of? Need I remind you the CGT has 610hp with no ESP? I would never use the word "solid" to describe the differences in the two cars.

BTW, my 430 Spider has over 7500 miles on it. I am confident when I sell it it be worth at least what I paid for it. Your CGT is probably worth LESS than what you paid for it a month ago.

Nick,

Seriously now. you have a 430 Spyder. I just sold mine. What is it that you find so compelling about that car?

I loved the "exotic" nature of it. But the constant attention was a drag. The performance was great, but from a cockpit point-of-view no more so (in fact a little less so) than my TT.

FWIW Colm and I disagree about the C-GT too. And from a financial perspective, nothing is a Ferrari V-8. I'm not sure if the 599 (in line, about 2 yr away) will be able to match the 360/430 phenomena in terms of prices.

But what is the "essence" of that car that you feel is so much "better" than a Porsche?

[Nick]

Originally Posted by allegretto

Nick,

Seriously now. you have a 430 Spyder. I just sold mine. What is it that you find so compelling about that car?

I loved the "exotic" nature of it. But the constant attention was a drag. The performance was great, but from a cockpit point-of-view no more so (in fact a little less so) than my TT.

FWIW Colm and I disagree about the C-GT too. And from a financial perspective, nothing is a Ferrari V-8. I'm not sure if the 599 (in line, about 2 yr away) will be able to match the 360/430 phenomena in terms of prices.

But what is the "essence" of that car that you feel is so much "better" than a Porsche?

If I was into racing (on a track) my car of choice would be a Porsche or a modded Lotus. On public road, I want a car that is easy to drive fast and provide a modicum of safety for the invariable mistakes most of not all drivers make. In addition, if I am paying over $100,000 for a car, I want it to be unique, special and fun to drive. Also, I want it to be coveted by the public to the point that on resale it reasonable retains its value.

The lower end Porsche's are not unique or special (all models look alike regardless of cost and Porsche has gone from building 25000 to almost a 100,000 in 8 short years) and certainly not fun to drive because to enjoy a Porsche you need to do it at speed. Otherwise, the car might as well be a Saturn.

The Gallardo, Ferrari and Aston Martin are a few premium cars that provide a sense of occasion when driving them on public roads. You can drive these cars at speed or 25mph and still enjoy the car for all its sensuousness. Yes ,they get attention but if you are married to a beautiful woman (which I believe you are) do you put a bag over her face, divorce her, or not be seen in public with her because she is beautiful?

Porsche is a terrific car and designed for performance and nothing else. They truly follow the philosophy of function over form and is why many car magazines are taking issue with its styling. CAR magazine which adores Porsche wrote in an article comparing the styling of the 997TT to the Gallardo stated the 997TT looked like a "frumpy retro joke" . Coming fron CAR magazine this is a serious indictment.

My 430 Spider provides me with everything I want in a car based on the criteria I discussed above..

[Eric Ondoy]

Jack,
Thanks for the great write-up, I was wondering with an RS on the way if there was really a big difference between the RS and a reg.GT3(hardly regular!!!) . I needed the info. Enjoy in good health!!!

[allegretto]

Originally Posted by Nick

If I was into racing (on a track) my car of choice would be a Porsche or a modded Lotus. On public road, I want a car that is easy to drive fast and provide a modicum of safety for the invariable mistakes most of not all drivers make. In addition, if I am paying over $100,000 for a car, I want it to be unique, special and fun to drive. Also, I want it to be coveted by the public to the point that on resale it reasonable retains its value.

The lower end Porsche's are not unique or special (all models look alike regardless of cost and Porsche has gone from building 25000 to almost a 100,000 in 8 short years) and certainly not fun to drive because to enjoy a Porsche you need to do it at speed. Otherwise, the car might as well be a Saturn.

The Gallardo, Ferrari and Aston Martin are a few premium cars that provide a sense of occasion when driving them on public roads. You can drive these cars at speed or 25mph and still enjoy the car for all its sensuousness. Yes ,they get attention but if you are married to a beautiful woman (which I believe you are) do you put a bag over her face, divorce her, or not be seen in public with her because she is beautiful?

Porsche is a terrific car and designed for performance and nothing else. They truly follow the philosophy of function over form and is why many car magazines are taking issue with its styling. CAR magazine which adores Porsche wrote in an article comparing the styling of the 997TT to the Gallardo stated the 997TT looked like a "frumpy retro joke" . Coming fron CAR magazine this is a serious indictment.

My 430 Spider provides me with everything I want in a car based on the criteria I discussed above..

Well I certainly agree with much of what you wrote. For me the dilemma is that we pay breathtaking amounts of money for vehicles that are so capable that we only use a fraction of their prowess. At least in my geography, I'm more likely to be doing 25 than 125 at any given moment. So I sort of feel like it's a grand party that is sparsely attended. This is the reasonn I joined the track CC and now my tastes are evolving away from fast drivers on the street due to wasted time. But I understand the feeling of "occasion" and still expect to feel at least some of it with the RS, though not as much as a voyage in a 430 Spyder. As far as performance however, I don't expect the RS to give up much to a 430.

With respect to CAR mag; I guess taste is in the eye of the beholder but does anyone think that the lines of the Gallardo, 430, Murcie etc will seem good for 40 yrs? I think we'll look back upon them much like the Testarossa, which to me is somewhat...amusing today. I still like the classic 911 form, but there are other designs I like better. I think the 360 was the last really "drop-dead gorgeous" F-car and I miss it more than the 430 in truth. I have seen the 599 and I think it is potentially a keeper design. Time will tell.

Your point about financial issues is dead on. In spite of what some Porsche-philes think, the C-GT will likely never be as revered as it probably should be and will never command the big bucks as an F-40 surely will and an Enzo always will. The C-GT is a wonderful device, but lacks the soul of those other two.

Anyway, thanks for sharing.

[frayed]

Originally Posted by Nick

In addition, if I am paying over $100,000 for a car, I want it to be unique, special and fun to drive. Also, I want it to be coveted by the public to the point that on resale it reasonable retains its value. . . .

Agreed, supply and demand. This is the major pitfall of modern porsches, they make too damn many of them.

Originally Posted by Nick

Porsche is a terrific car and designed for performance and nothing else. They truly follow the philosophy of function over form and is why many car magazines are taking issue with its styling.

Definitely don't agree. That award goes to cars like the Z06. In my experience, Porsche goes to great lengths to marry performance with driver involvement. The on-limit feel of modern porsches is sublime in a way that my fcar was not.

Originally Posted by Nick

CAR magazine which adores Porsche wrote in an article comparing the styling of the 997TT to the Gallardo stated the 997TT looked like a "frumpy retro joke" . Coming fron CAR magazine this is a serious indictment.

A 'serious' indictment from a car magazine? That's funny.

Anyway, having owned the 360, which, except for the dated headlights, is a more cohesive, more flowing design than the 430 (especially the spider), no doubt the ferrari is object of lust. It'll make grown men gape in amazement in amazement.

But in the end, for me, it's more about the driving experience. That's why I'm back in the Porsche world today. From this perspective, Pcars are peerless.

[frayed]

While I have no experience with the RS as others here have, I have played around with widening the track on cars and on modifying suspension geometry. There could be a discernable difference b/t the 3 and the RS, but my experience is that widening the track some mm isn't particularly noticable behind the wheel, and I have difficulty believing the exending the wheelbase 5mm makes much difference. I'd be very interested in knowing if the RS rear suspension hardware optimizes the suspension *geometry* (e.g., reduce bumpsteer) over the 3, or whether the components simply offer more adjustability.

The ltw fly is only a benefit in gears 1-3, and for heel toeing, and is easily fitted onto the 3.

[icon]

Originally Posted by allegretto

In spite of what some Porsche-philes think, the C-GT will likely never be as revered as it probably should be and will never command the big bucks as an F-40 surely will and an Enzo always will. The C-GT is a wonderful device, but lacks the soul of those other two.

i would be in the "some porsche-philes" camp.
lacks soul huh? gimme a break!
that's nice and specific and the typical fallback for f-car fans . . . but coming from a p-car fan?
i don't think it will equal the resale of an enzo simply because of the dif in numbers produced so the camparison is not fair.
although it doesnt help the enzo's status that you can get the same engine now in the much cheaper 599.
a lot depends on the cost of long term maintenance and whether or not the cgt achieves the cult status the f40 enjoys.
my feeling is that it is well on the way to cult status.
cgt also has the extra option of open air motoring not found in the f40.
and nick surely can't argue that the f40 is a safer car!
. . . or that the cgt styling is bland!
finding avenues to keep the running costs down will be the challenge and the dictator of future resale.
(sorry for the OT)

nick, you going to get a 599 when they go topless?

[allegretto]

Originally Posted by frayed

But in the end, for me, it's more about the driving experience. That's why I'm back in the Porsche world today. From this perspective, Pcars are peerless.

Exactly!

[///Mous3]

Originally Posted by Nick

My 430 Spider provides me with everything I want in a car based on the criteria I discussed above..

I will take RS any-day over the road-oriented 430 (especially the spider). If you are talking about Stradale, my choice will be reversed.

In-short; as Porsche have stated...RS is for "occational road use". There is not enough true track-oriented cars out there... and there's the RS...

[allegretto]

Originally Posted by ///Mous3

I will take RS any-day over the road-oriented 430 (especially the spider). If you are talking about Stradale, my choice will be reversed.

Have you driven a Stradale? I have. I really cant figure what the big deal is except a nice exhaust note and racer wannabe trinkets inside. My 430 Spyder would have whipped it like a rented mule on the track.

[///Mous3]

It is still a Stradale; period.

[///Mous3]

Hahahahaa.... that cracks me up every time!

[krC2S]

Originally Posted by ///Mous3

Hahahahaa.... that craks me up every time!

[///Mous3]

Hey Jeff, is that Suze Orman in here College years?

[Nick]

Originally Posted by icon

i would be in the "some porsche-philes" camp.
lacks soul huh? gimme a break!
that's nice and specific and the typical fallback for f-car fans . . . but coming from a p-car fan?
i don't think it will equal the resale of an enzo simply because of the dif in numbers produced so the camparison is not fair.
although it doesnt help the enzo's status that you can get the same engine now in the much cheaper 599.
a lot depends on the cost of long term maintenance and whether or not the cgt achieves the cult status the f40 enjoys.
my feeling is that it is well on the way to cult status.
cgt also has the extra option of open air motoring not found in the f40.
and nick surely can't argue that the f40 is a safer car!
. . . or that the cgt styling is bland!
finding avenues to keep the running costs down will be the challenge and the dictator of future resale.
(sorry for the OT)

nick, you going to get a 599 when they go topless?

Nope. I like mid-engine.