GT3 / GTRS test drive comparison..... there is a noticeable difference...

Jack · 03-11-2007, 03:36 PM

While I'm waiting for my RS to arrive (March build), my good friend Amir took pity on me and asked if I wanted to do a "comparo" drive through the Santa Monica canyons using his GT3 and his very recently arrived RS. After lengthy (2 seconds) consideration, I acquiesced. We took out both GT3's and switched cars several times during our 2 hour cruise -- what a blast. Thanks Amir.

Anyone who says there's no discernible performance difference between the two has either never driven a GT3RS or is dead.

While the cars obviously share many similarities, the two major differences provide huge benefits, IMHO. I was just surprised at how different it made the two cars feel.

Firstly, the lightweight flywheel does make a very noticeable difference -- throttle response is significantly better in the RS. It just rev's quicker as you would expect, but I was just surprised at how different/noticeable it was. Even at part throttle, you can really feel a more urgent thrust at the 3-4K rpm range in the taller gears with the RS over the GT3.

Secondly, the RS felt more stable and handled better right out of the box. It especially takes the bumps much better -- much less drama. The RS rear end just stays planted whereas the regular GT3 had a tendency to squirm a lot, especially bad when you encountered some minor bumps in a corner. I also felt this when I last had a chance to drive a '97 GT3 at Big Willow. For those that know that track -- it's not confidence inspiring when you hit those bumps in turn 8 at a high speed and the rear end wants to step out.

I don't know if it's the different suspension components or the wider track or re-configured suspension computer settings or all of the above..... but the RS just felt more stable.

I apologize for using the word "surprised" so much in my brief comparo above, but I couldn't escape that feeling of surprise when I did back to back driving between the two GT3 variants. Going in, I really wasn't expecting the RS to be that different a "driving" machine. Many have lamented that the US RS isn't that much different than the regular GT3 because we're not getting the seats, roll cage, etc., and is the RS really worth the extra $15K or so. IMHO, it's worth every penny, and, to my surprise (there's that word again), the RS is a very different car when it comes to the most important attribute of any car --the driving experience.

Just my two cents and probably worth less.

BobbyC · 03-11-2007, 03:45 PM

Jack, thank you for the write-up. Good stuff. We need all the info we can get to learn...

my911rs · 03-11-2007, 06:03 PM

Thanks for sharing!

supercup · 03-11-2007, 06:30 PM

Jack,

Glad to hear the drive went well and you impressions are very interesting. Can you give some indication how the RS compares to your old 430 or your lotus?

Thanks for the track time last week had a blast.

See you soon,

JCM

khaug · 03-11-2007, 08:00 PM

Were both cars 997s?

Jack · 03-11-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supercup

Jack,

Glad to hear the drive went well and you impressions are very interesting. Can you give some indication how the RS compares to your old 430 or your lotus?

Thanks for the track time last week had a blast.

See you soon,

JCM

John,

Hard to really answer the question with regard to the 430, the RS only had 70 miles on it so we weren't pushing it too hard. I'm sure the RS is more capable on track than the 430 -- not sure about the acceleration yet.

As for the Lotus, the RS still felt like a bus.

Seriously, I was quite impressed by the RS after being somewhat underwhelmed by the GT3 when I drove one of the first GT3's last year. Perhaps my expectation level was set too high then (due to all the hype); hence, I was not expecting much from the RS but it really impressed me.

Glad you had a good time at Buttonwillow -- your 997 Cup car was fantastic.

Jack · 03-11-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khaug

Were both cars 997s?

YES

leif997 · 03-11-2007, 08:27 PM

Jack, thanks so much for the informative comparo...did either car have "track settings" adjustments to their respective suspensions? What specific tendencies towards under or oversteer did you appreciate. How was weight transfer b/w them? did you get a chance to try both with and w/o the psm and tc on and off? I will be able to make these same observations myself in short time but would like your opinions.

Jack · 03-11-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leif997

Jack, thanks so much for the informative comparo...did either car have "track settings" adjustments to their respective suspensions? What specific tendencies towards under or oversteer did you appreciate. How was weight transfer b/w them? did you get a chance to try both with and w/o the psm and tc on and off? I will be able to make these same observations myself in short time but would like your opinions.

Both cars had the stock factory alignment settings -- no definitive testing was really done. It was just a two hour drive through the canyons going back and forth between the 2 cars -- the RS just felt better.

More info next week, if Amir lets me drive his RS again.

AndrewSS · 03-11-2007, 09:24 PM

Does the 997 GT3RS come with a track oriented alignment out of the factory? I know that the normal GT3 comes with a street alignment, this possible difference could explain some of the differences you are listing.

JFT · 03-11-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSS

Does the 997 GT3RS come with a track oriented alignment out of the factory? I know that the normal GT3 comes with a street alignment, this possible difference could explain some of the differences you are listing.

The RS does come with more track oriented PASM set-up, but the same alignment of the bars.

On a separate note, Sweden has finally hit Spring, and I just put 100 miles on over the weekend. Wow - it is absolutely bloody marvellous!!!!! Took some friends for a ride - seasoned GT3 people - and they were jaw struck by the power. It really is that fast..

eclou · 03-11-2007, 09:58 PM

I would be very surprised if the LTW flywheel is giving a noticeable difference in throttle response in the taller gears. Mathematically, the flywheels give an advantage in the shorter 1st - 3rd gears with the difference becoming near negligible as one gets taller. Perhaps the throttle mapping is different between the 2?

SrfCity · 03-11-2007, 10:22 PM

Thanks for the write up. I'd be curious to hear a more objective one also. No offense but if you've got one on order I can almost guarantee that you'll favor the RS.

I'd also be curious to hear an objective view of the 997/S vs GT3 vs 997TT vs GT3RS. I'm sure it all depends on what kind of driving you plan to do. Personally I wrestle with the extra $50K or so that a GT3 would cost over my 997S. There are always a lot of factors that play into one's own decisions.

Rob Wolford · 03-11-2007, 11:06 PM

Jack,

Needless to say, your preliminary assessment is music to my ears!!!

Rob

allegretto · 03-12-2007, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SrfCity

Thanks for the write up. I'd be curious to hear a more objective one also. No offense but if you've got one on order I can almost guarantee that you'll favor the RS.

I'd also be curious to hear an objective view of the 997/S vs GT3 vs 997TT vs GT3RS.

As if you'll ever see an "objective" review of those cars.

But what really maters is each of our "subjective" impressions. After all, that's what drives the check-writing hand

03-11-2007, 03:36 PM	#1
Jack Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,184	GT3 / GTRS test drive comparison..... there is a noticeable difference... While I'm waiting for my RS to arrive (March build), my good friend Amir took pity on me and asked if I wanted to do a "comparo" drive through the Santa Monica canyons using his GT3 and his very recently arrived RS. After lengthy (2 seconds) consideration, I acquiesced. We took out both GT3's and switched cars several times during our 2 hour cruise -- what a blast. Thanks Amir. Anyone who says there's no discernible performance difference between the two has either never driven a GT3RS or is dead. While the cars obviously share many similarities, the two major differences provide huge benefits, IMHO. I was just surprised at how different it made the two cars feel. Firstly, the lightweight flywheel does make a very noticeable difference -- throttle response is significantly better in the RS. It just rev's quicker as you would expect, but I was just surprised at how different/noticeable it was. Even at part throttle, you can really feel a more urgent thrust at the 3-4K rpm range in the taller gears with the RS over the GT3. Secondly, the RS felt more stable and handled better right out of the box. It especially takes the bumps much better -- much less drama. The RS rear end just stays planted whereas the regular GT3 had a tendency to squirm a lot, especially bad when you encountered some minor bumps in a corner. I also felt this when I last had a chance to drive a '97 GT3 at Big Willow. For those that know that track -- it's not confidence inspiring when you hit those bumps in turn 8 at a high speed and the rear end wants to step out. I don't know if it's the different suspension components or the wider track or re-configured suspension computer settings or all of the above..... but the RS just felt more stable. I apologize for using the word "surprised" so much in my brief comparo above, but I couldn't escape that feeling of surprise when I did back to back driving between the two GT3 variants. Going in, I really wasn't expecting the RS to be that different a "driving" machine. Many have lamented that the US RS isn't that much different than the regular GT3 because we're not getting the seats, roll cage, etc., and is the RS really worth the extra $15K or so. IMHO, it's worth every penny, and, to my surprise (there's that word again), the RS is a very different car when it comes to the most important attribute of any car --the driving experience. Just my two cents and probably worth less. __________________ Jack GT3 RS Video of Exige Cup255

03-11-2007, 03:45 PM	#2
BobbyC Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,018	Jack, thank you for the write-up. Good stuff. We need all the info we can get to learn... __________________ 2007 Orange 997 GT3RS - SLOWCAR 2005 Silver 996 Turbo S - NOT STOCK 2008 Black Cayenne GTS - HERS Professional Risk Taking Guru

03-11-2007, 08:00 PM	#5
khaug Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lansing, MI Posts: 221	Were both cars 997s? __________________ - Karl -2007 VW Touareg V10 TDI (553 lb/ft, "DZL EGG"), tows: -'07 997 Porsche GT3 ("Bernd"), in -'07 Trailex enclosed trailer -'05 M-B E320 CDI ("Helga"), family cruiser

03-11-2007, 08:27 PM	#8
leif997 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,374	Jack, thanks so much for the informative comparo...did either car have "track settings" adjustments to their respective suspensions? What specific tendencies towards under or oversteer did you appreciate. How was weight transfer b/w them? did you get a chance to try both with and w/o the psm and tc on and off? I will be able to make these same observations myself in short time but would like your opinions. __________________ Self Inflicted ! 2004 GT3 RSR 2007 GT3 white (Daily Driver) 2007 GT3 RS (sick machine! ) Full Euro ClubSport package minus the plastic rear window. Orange,black, PCCB's, Xenons, AC delete and other P-cars, etc....

03-11-2007, 09:58 PM	#12
eclou Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,776	I would be very surprised if the LTW flywheel is giving a noticeable difference in throttle response in the taller gears. Mathematically, the flywheels give an advantage in the shorter 1st - 3rd gears with the difference becoming near negligible as one gets taller. Perhaps the throttle mapping is different between the 2? __________________ Rennlist #040131-4711 08 CTT blk/blk 07 997TT guards AWE/GIAC 700 kit 97 993TT arctic AWE/GIAC K24 kit 86 951 Moton Clubsports, Racers Edge Bushings, 968 M030 sways, K27/6(7200), 52# Lucas injectors, 3bar FPR, SFR MAF, ARC2, Zeitronix, SFR hardpipes, Tial 38mm WG, MBC, Guru chips, Fidenza ltw fly, LSD, Fabspeed 3"testpipe, Broadfoot 3"catback, Autometer UltraLites, Sparco Evo2s, Redline Rollbar, Blaszak steel control arms, Big Reds and 5/33 bias, 310 rwhp TWS lap Texas Mile

03-11-2007, 06:03 PM	#3
my911rs Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 109	Thanks for sharing!

03-11-2007, 06:30 PM	#4
supercup Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 897	Jack, Glad to hear the drive went well and you impressions are very interesting. Can you give some indication how the RS compares to your old 430 or your lotus? Thanks for the track time last week had a blast. See you soon, JCM

03-11-2007, 09:24 PM	#10
AndrewSS User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 76	Does the 997 GT3RS come with a track oriented alignment out of the factory? I know that the normal GT3 comes with a street alignment, this possible difference could explain some of the differences you are listing.

03-11-2007, 10:22 PM	#13
SrfCity User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 926	Thanks for the write up. I'd be curious to hear a more objective one also. No offense but if you've got one on order I can almost guarantee that you'll favor the RS. I'd also be curious to hear an objective view of the 997/S vs GT3 vs 997TT vs GT3RS. I'm sure it all depends on what kind of driving you plan to do. Personally I wrestle with the extra $50K or so that a GT3 would cost over my 997S. There are always a lot of factors that play into one's own decisions.

03-11-2007, 11:06 PM	#14
Rob Wolford Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA. Posts: 123	Jack, Needless to say, your preliminary assessment is music to my ears!!! Rob __________________ 2005 MBZ E55, 2004 Carrera GT 1999, 2001 & 2002 daughters! Gone but missed: 2002 GT2 2007 Porsche GT3RS Challenge Stradale Ruf RTurbo 550 996 GT3 993TT 550 Maranello