Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige
01-28-2008, 03:00 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Handling question? GT3 RS v Lotus Exige
Hi folks,
Basically my question is MR v RR.
I just brought a Lotus S1 Exige, I love the handling of this car. Probably due to the Mid engine design and lightweight (less than 800kg). However, the power isn't enough.
I am planing to buy the facelift RS in the future, and I have already placed an deposit for that, but just thinking which one have better handling, because the RS is Rear engine design and heavier (with alot more power).
Anyone here have driven both?
How are they compared?
Thanks, I seriously couldn't go back to FR, FF or 4WD sports car.
Basically my question is MR v RR.
I just brought a Lotus S1 Exige, I love the handling of this car. Probably due to the Mid engine design and lightweight (less than 800kg). However, the power isn't enough.
I am planing to buy the facelift RS in the future, and I have already placed an deposit for that, but just thinking which one have better handling, because the RS is Rear engine design and heavier (with alot more power).
Anyone here have driven both?
How are they compared?
Thanks, I seriously couldn't go back to FR, FF or 4WD sports car.
01-28-2008, 05:00 PM
#4
Advanced
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SoCal/South Bay
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't own a Lotus but,
Car & Driver did a comparison between 997 GT3, Lotus Exige S and Corvette Z06 in March of 2000, and results can be read here:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...e-911-gt3.html
Hope someone who owns both or has experience with both can chime in.
Car & Driver did a comparison between 997 GT3, Lotus Exige S and Corvette Z06 in March of 2000, and results can be read here:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...e-911-gt3.html
Hope someone who owns both or has experience with both can chime in.
01-28-2008, 05:11 PM
#5
I've spent a lot of seat time in my Exige S and GT3. Both cars handle really well. By that, I mean turn-in is instantenous, feel is good, the cars stay planted and feel solid, can be throttle-steered, etc. Having said that, I'd give the overall handling edge to the Lotus for several reasons:
- I presume because of the mid-engine design & lower polar moment of inertia, the Lotus is much easier to rotate in a very controlled manner. Really the car feels like it's rotating around you, not like it's taking you for a ride.
- Although the feel is good in both cars, the feel in the the Lotus is better and more direct. The car goes where you point it with no drama whatsoever.
- I've never felt the Lotus push at all unless I really overcook it into a turn. Oversteer is easier to catch and correct because there's not a big old motor hanging out at the edge of the car trying to drag you into the weeds.
- The Lotus is probably easier to drive at or close to the limit than the GT3.
The GT3 has a couple of advantages too, though:
- It's easier to throttle-steer because of the extra power and the way the car is setup.
- Because of the weight distribution, you can get back on the gas an instant sooner in the GT3 than in the Lotus, which obviously helps with corner exit speed.
The fact is that they're both great, but very different, cars. You can't go wrong with either of them. Without a doubt the GT3 will have the overall edge in lap times because it's got so much more power and can pull harder on the straights.
I just saw YellowDragon's response above, so I thought I'd a few comments on the Z06 as well:
- The Z can be setup to handle almost as well as the GT3. The key thing is having the correct tires; keep in mind that all the magazine reviews use the stock Z06 tires, which are Goodyear run-flats. Putting a set of MPSCs or Kumho Ecsta V700s on the car (which I like better than the MPSCs for this car) makes a huge difference.
- The correct tires make the car feel more nimble, turn-in is crisp and immediate, and the car is very neutral through the turn. It can be throttle-steered fairly easily. It does have a tendency to push a little more than the other cars, and you need to be very judicious with use of the throttle because the car has so much torque that you can break the rear tires loose without even thinking about it as you get back on the gas.
- Steering feel is a little bit numb compared to the other cars.
With the correct setup on the Z (good tires, a good set of track pads), the Z will be the quickest of the bunch around most road courses. The Lotus and GT3 are a little more fun and involving to drive, though.
Good luck!
- I presume because of the mid-engine design & lower polar moment of inertia, the Lotus is much easier to rotate in a very controlled manner. Really the car feels like it's rotating around you, not like it's taking you for a ride.
- Although the feel is good in both cars, the feel in the the Lotus is better and more direct. The car goes where you point it with no drama whatsoever.
- I've never felt the Lotus push at all unless I really overcook it into a turn. Oversteer is easier to catch and correct because there's not a big old motor hanging out at the edge of the car trying to drag you into the weeds.
- The Lotus is probably easier to drive at or close to the limit than the GT3.
The GT3 has a couple of advantages too, though:
- It's easier to throttle-steer because of the extra power and the way the car is setup.
- Because of the weight distribution, you can get back on the gas an instant sooner in the GT3 than in the Lotus, which obviously helps with corner exit speed.
The fact is that they're both great, but very different, cars. You can't go wrong with either of them. Without a doubt the GT3 will have the overall edge in lap times because it's got so much more power and can pull harder on the straights.
I just saw YellowDragon's response above, so I thought I'd a few comments on the Z06 as well:
- The Z can be setup to handle almost as well as the GT3. The key thing is having the correct tires; keep in mind that all the magazine reviews use the stock Z06 tires, which are Goodyear run-flats. Putting a set of MPSCs or Kumho Ecsta V700s on the car (which I like better than the MPSCs for this car) makes a huge difference.
- The correct tires make the car feel more nimble, turn-in is crisp and immediate, and the car is very neutral through the turn. It can be throttle-steered fairly easily. It does have a tendency to push a little more than the other cars, and you need to be very judicious with use of the throttle because the car has so much torque that you can break the rear tires loose without even thinking about it as you get back on the gas.
- Steering feel is a little bit numb compared to the other cars.
With the correct setup on the Z (good tires, a good set of track pads), the Z will be the quickest of the bunch around most road courses. The Lotus and GT3 are a little more fun and involving to drive, though.
Good luck!
01-28-2008, 06:46 PM
#7
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
have/had 4 GT3, 1 RS and two lotus.
you can't say one is better than the other.
but if you want a quick answer, everything being equal, lotus handles better, period.
but if you throw in power, driving technique, personal preference. type of turns, type of track, length of each session..... then it's wide open.
and believe me, short of God himself, if one can push a lotus to 8/10 after 2 day, it would take one 4 days+ to get GT3 to 8/10, what i mean is it will take you 2x as long to become proficient in the 3 then in the lotus.
you can't say one is better than the other.
but if you want a quick answer, everything being equal, lotus handles better, period.
but if you throw in power, driving technique, personal preference. type of turns, type of track, length of each session..... then it's wide open.
and believe me, short of God himself, if one can push a lotus to 8/10 after 2 day, it would take one 4 days+ to get GT3 to 8/10, what i mean is it will take you 2x as long to become proficient in the 3 then in the lotus.
Trending Topics
01-28-2008, 08:31 PM
#8
Banned
I owned both back to back and must say they are both at the top of their game.
I started with a 2005 325 hp 997, and after 8 months traded “down” to a 2005 Federal Elise. I then added the Forcedfed 275 turbo kit and later upgraded to the Forcedfed Race 340 kit (built motor) with the Ohlin's dampers, Nitron quick rack, AP Racing big brake kit, and EFI standalone ECU. After almost 2 years of Elise ownership with many mods, I went to a 2007 Exige S for 6 months, and I currently drive a 2008 997 GT3 as of 8 Dec, 2008.
My stock Elise was a great sports car that handled like nothing else I had ever driven before. It made my 2005 997 feel like a bus and could also keep up with it in a straight line. The handling of a well tuned suspension on a 1,900 lb car cannot be reproduced with a 3,200 lb car; period. However, the power band was certainly not linear, and it lacked the torque which makes it more enjoyable to drive on the street on a daily basis. So I decided to give it a turbo power boost with an upgrade to 275 hp at the crank. This was perfect for the car, but then I got bit by the mod bug really bad and went to another level of performance which made 304 hp at the wheels! The power to weight of my modified Elise was phenomenal, and the overall drivability of this kit was excellent; especially when I went from a Unichip piggy-back ECU to the excellent EFI stand-alone. This change allowed for even more power, but also allowed the car to be daily driven without a hitch.
The Exige S was even better because of the linearity of engine power due to the supercharger. It would not touch my Elise in a straight line (with 5.4 lbs/hp nothing ever did here in Albuquerque), but it had such a wonderful torque curve, with the same handling characteristics, that I preferred it over my Elise. The Elise with the 340 turbo kit was a bit ridiculous, but luckily I had multiple maps and used the one which made about 300 flywheel hp on pump gas almost all the time.
Then I get the call that I will be getting a GT3 allocation and I had to decide between my Exige S and the 997 GT3. My Exige S had some nice upgrades too; mostly the exhaust and wheels, and I enjoyed every aspect of it. I drove it every day and to me it was the perfect car because of its simplicity, and its very high grin factor. The handling is what makes the Exige a joy, even at only 6 or 7/10's.
I could not afford both the GT3 and Exige S, so I finally decided to sell my Exige S because I can get one any day of the week with low miles for $50K and less; not so for the 997 GT3.
I made the leap and initially thought that I had made a mistake, but I was happy with the overall character of the GT3 during the break-in period. After about 6 weeks of driving it, which was very recent, I decided I love this car and I am awe struck at how well it does everything. It has linear power and lots of it; it handles like a race car (my version that is), but can be driven very comfortably. It can make you feel like a race car driver, but also be driven to get groceries.
It is about as perfect as a street legal sports car can be if one wants to use it for a daily driver and weekend track star. If you take the street drivability, practicality, quality, and ergonomics out of the picture, then I would still give the nod to the Elise/Exige for the overall driving experience and handling attributes; but if you take everything else into account that the GT3 does so well, then it really is not a contest. And I say this as a man who drove his Elise and Exige on a daily basis AND found it to be very comfortable, including on long distance trips.
It wasn't until I drove the GT3 that I understood what is possible. If you have not experienced another level of greatness, then you may well believe that it cannot get any better than the level you are at.
However, I would buy another Elise or Exige in a heartbeat, and ideally, I want to own one in addition to my GT3.
I hope this helps.
Stephen
I started with a 2005 325 hp 997, and after 8 months traded “down” to a 2005 Federal Elise. I then added the Forcedfed 275 turbo kit and later upgraded to the Forcedfed Race 340 kit (built motor) with the Ohlin's dampers, Nitron quick rack, AP Racing big brake kit, and EFI standalone ECU. After almost 2 years of Elise ownership with many mods, I went to a 2007 Exige S for 6 months, and I currently drive a 2008 997 GT3 as of 8 Dec, 2008.
My stock Elise was a great sports car that handled like nothing else I had ever driven before. It made my 2005 997 feel like a bus and could also keep up with it in a straight line. The handling of a well tuned suspension on a 1,900 lb car cannot be reproduced with a 3,200 lb car; period. However, the power band was certainly not linear, and it lacked the torque which makes it more enjoyable to drive on the street on a daily basis. So I decided to give it a turbo power boost with an upgrade to 275 hp at the crank. This was perfect for the car, but then I got bit by the mod bug really bad and went to another level of performance which made 304 hp at the wheels! The power to weight of my modified Elise was phenomenal, and the overall drivability of this kit was excellent; especially when I went from a Unichip piggy-back ECU to the excellent EFI stand-alone. This change allowed for even more power, but also allowed the car to be daily driven without a hitch.
The Exige S was even better because of the linearity of engine power due to the supercharger. It would not touch my Elise in a straight line (with 5.4 lbs/hp nothing ever did here in Albuquerque), but it had such a wonderful torque curve, with the same handling characteristics, that I preferred it over my Elise. The Elise with the 340 turbo kit was a bit ridiculous, but luckily I had multiple maps and used the one which made about 300 flywheel hp on pump gas almost all the time.
Then I get the call that I will be getting a GT3 allocation and I had to decide between my Exige S and the 997 GT3. My Exige S had some nice upgrades too; mostly the exhaust and wheels, and I enjoyed every aspect of it. I drove it every day and to me it was the perfect car because of its simplicity, and its very high grin factor. The handling is what makes the Exige a joy, even at only 6 or 7/10's.
I could not afford both the GT3 and Exige S, so I finally decided to sell my Exige S because I can get one any day of the week with low miles for $50K and less; not so for the 997 GT3.
I made the leap and initially thought that I had made a mistake, but I was happy with the overall character of the GT3 during the break-in period. After about 6 weeks of driving it, which was very recent, I decided I love this car and I am awe struck at how well it does everything. It has linear power and lots of it; it handles like a race car (my version that is), but can be driven very comfortably. It can make you feel like a race car driver, but also be driven to get groceries.
It is about as perfect as a street legal sports car can be if one wants to use it for a daily driver and weekend track star. If you take the street drivability, practicality, quality, and ergonomics out of the picture, then I would still give the nod to the Elise/Exige for the overall driving experience and handling attributes; but if you take everything else into account that the GT3 does so well, then it really is not a contest. And I say this as a man who drove his Elise and Exige on a daily basis AND found it to be very comfortable, including on long distance trips.
It wasn't until I drove the GT3 that I understood what is possible. If you have not experienced another level of greatness, then you may well believe that it cannot get any better than the level you are at.
However, I would buy another Elise or Exige in a heartbeat, and ideally, I want to own one in addition to my GT3.
I hope this helps.
Stephen
01-29-2008, 01:46 AM
#9
Racer
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First time I was given a taxi ride in Exige S2 at Sepang F1 circuit in Malaysia...
Man that car is rock solid and can take alot of abuse. It's a road legal Go-kart!
Truly amazing car.
Man that car is rock solid and can take alot of abuse. It's a road legal Go-kart!
Truly amazing car.
01-29-2008, 11:16 AM
#10
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I owned both back to back and must say they are both at the top of their game.
I started with a 2005 325 hp 997, and after 8 months traded “down” to a 2005 Federal Elise. I then added the Forcedfed 275 turbo kit and later upgraded to the Forcedfed Race 340 kit (built motor) with the Ohlin's dampers, Nitron quick rack, AP Racing big brake kit, and EFI standalone ECU. After almost 2 years of Elise ownership with many mods, I went to a 2007 Exige S for 6 months, and I currently drive a 2008 997 GT3 as of 8 Dec, 2008.
My stock Elise was a great sports car that handled like nothing else I had ever driven before. It made my 2005 997 feel like a bus and could also keep up with it in a straight line. The handling of a well tuned suspension on a 1,900 lb car cannot be reproduced with a 3,200 lb car; period. However, the power band was certainly not linear, and it lacked the torque which makes it more enjoyable to drive on the street on a daily basis. So I decided to give it a turbo power boost with an upgrade to 275 hp at the crank. This was perfect for the car, but then I got bit by the mod bug really bad and went to another level of performance which made 304 hp at the wheels! The power to weight of my modified Elise was phenomenal, and the overall drivability of this kit was excellent; especially when I went from a Unichip piggy-back ECU to the excellent EFI stand-alone. This change allowed for even more power, but also allowed the car to be daily driven without a hitch.
The Exige S was even better because of the linearity of engine power due to the supercharger. It would not touch my Elise in a straight line (with 5.4 lbs/hp nothing ever did here in Albuquerque), but it had such a wonderful torque curve, with the same handling characteristics, that I preferred it over my Elise. The Elise with the 340 turbo kit was a bit ridiculous, but luckily I had multiple maps and used the one which made about 300 flywheel hp on pump gas almost all the time.
Then I get the call that I will be getting a GT3 allocation and I had to decide between my Exige S and the 997 GT3. My Exige S had some nice upgrades too; mostly the exhaust and wheels, and I enjoyed every aspect of it. I drove it every day and to me it was the perfect car because of its simplicity, and its very high grin factor. The handling is what makes the Exige a joy, even at only 6 or 7/10's.
I could not afford both the GT3 and Exige S, so I finally decided to sell my Exige S because I can get one any day of the week with low miles for $50K and less; not so for the 997 GT3.
I made the leap and initially thought that I had made a mistake, but I was happy with the overall character of the GT3 during the break-in period. After about 6 weeks of driving it, which was very recent, I decided I love this car and I am awe struck at how well it does everything. It has linear power and lots of it; it handles like a race car (my version that is), but can be driven very comfortably. It can make you feel like a race car driver, but also be driven to get groceries.
It is about as perfect as a street legal sports car can be if one wants to use it for a daily driver and weekend track star. If you take the street drivability, practicality, quality, and ergonomics out of the picture, then I would still give the nod to the Elise/Exige for the overall driving experience and handling attributes; but if you take everything else into account that the GT3 does so well, then it really is not a contest. And I say this as a man who drove his Elise and Exige on a daily basis AND found it to be very comfortable, including on long distance trips.
It wasn't until I drove the GT3 that I understood what is possible. If you have not experienced another level of greatness, then you may well believe that it cannot get any better than the level you are at.
However, I would buy another Elise or Exige in a heartbeat, and ideally, I want to own one in addition to my GT3.
I hope this helps.
Stephen
I started with a 2005 325 hp 997, and after 8 months traded “down” to a 2005 Federal Elise. I then added the Forcedfed 275 turbo kit and later upgraded to the Forcedfed Race 340 kit (built motor) with the Ohlin's dampers, Nitron quick rack, AP Racing big brake kit, and EFI standalone ECU. After almost 2 years of Elise ownership with many mods, I went to a 2007 Exige S for 6 months, and I currently drive a 2008 997 GT3 as of 8 Dec, 2008.
My stock Elise was a great sports car that handled like nothing else I had ever driven before. It made my 2005 997 feel like a bus and could also keep up with it in a straight line. The handling of a well tuned suspension on a 1,900 lb car cannot be reproduced with a 3,200 lb car; period. However, the power band was certainly not linear, and it lacked the torque which makes it more enjoyable to drive on the street on a daily basis. So I decided to give it a turbo power boost with an upgrade to 275 hp at the crank. This was perfect for the car, but then I got bit by the mod bug really bad and went to another level of performance which made 304 hp at the wheels! The power to weight of my modified Elise was phenomenal, and the overall drivability of this kit was excellent; especially when I went from a Unichip piggy-back ECU to the excellent EFI stand-alone. This change allowed for even more power, but also allowed the car to be daily driven without a hitch.
The Exige S was even better because of the linearity of engine power due to the supercharger. It would not touch my Elise in a straight line (with 5.4 lbs/hp nothing ever did here in Albuquerque), but it had such a wonderful torque curve, with the same handling characteristics, that I preferred it over my Elise. The Elise with the 340 turbo kit was a bit ridiculous, but luckily I had multiple maps and used the one which made about 300 flywheel hp on pump gas almost all the time.
Then I get the call that I will be getting a GT3 allocation and I had to decide between my Exige S and the 997 GT3. My Exige S had some nice upgrades too; mostly the exhaust and wheels, and I enjoyed every aspect of it. I drove it every day and to me it was the perfect car because of its simplicity, and its very high grin factor. The handling is what makes the Exige a joy, even at only 6 or 7/10's.
I could not afford both the GT3 and Exige S, so I finally decided to sell my Exige S because I can get one any day of the week with low miles for $50K and less; not so for the 997 GT3.
I made the leap and initially thought that I had made a mistake, but I was happy with the overall character of the GT3 during the break-in period. After about 6 weeks of driving it, which was very recent, I decided I love this car and I am awe struck at how well it does everything. It has linear power and lots of it; it handles like a race car (my version that is), but can be driven very comfortably. It can make you feel like a race car driver, but also be driven to get groceries.
It is about as perfect as a street legal sports car can be if one wants to use it for a daily driver and weekend track star. If you take the street drivability, practicality, quality, and ergonomics out of the picture, then I would still give the nod to the Elise/Exige for the overall driving experience and handling attributes; but if you take everything else into account that the GT3 does so well, then it really is not a contest. And I say this as a man who drove his Elise and Exige on a daily basis AND found it to be very comfortable, including on long distance trips.
It wasn't until I drove the GT3 that I understood what is possible. If you have not experienced another level of greatness, then you may well believe that it cannot get any better than the level you are at.
However, I would buy another Elise or Exige in a heartbeat, and ideally, I want to own one in addition to my GT3.
I hope this helps.
Stephen
Same as me, I couldn't keep both the RS and Exige, because there is not enough parking space here.
I seriously love my Exige, the handling is so direct with lots of feeling, but my car is standard so the hp isn't enough for me. Plus, I already feel a little bit boring, deal to the car is so easy to handle, just like a road going kart.
Hopefully, one year later the new RS will arrive and at that time I am going to just keep the RS, even the engine is in the wrong place compared with the Lotus, but I bet the handling would be awesome and with ton of power!
Thanks again folk!
01-29-2008, 10:27 PM
#12
So far I have kept my 2005 Elise but I feel no need to drive it in the crappy winter weather. The GT3 has snow tires and is fine for this. I'm sure when the weather improves I'll want to drive the Lotus again but it's really biased for the track, not the street, and I doubt I'll want to track it again in lieu of the GT3. So, the dilemma - why can't I sell it? BTW, on the track so much depends on whom you run with. In the few Lotus only events I have run, it was great and I felt sort of fast - but I usually run with the PCA region and there, my left arm was just getting tired. It's so frustrating to catch up under braking, go slow through the turns, then watch helplessly as the car in front of you walks away and wave the next guy past you on the straight. This does not happen with the GT3.
01-29-2008, 10:39 PM
#13
Banned
One of the best reply, thanks...
Same as me, I couldn't keep both the RS and Exige, because there is not enough parking space here.
I seriously love my Exige, the handling is so direct with lots of feeling, but my car is standard so the hp isn't enough for me. Plus, I already feel a little bit boring, deal to the car is so easy to handle, just like a road going kart.
Hopefully, one year later the new RS will arrive and at that time I am going to just keep the RS, even the engine is in the wrong place compared with the Lotus, but I bet the handling would be awesome and with ton of power!
Thanks again folk!
Same as me, I couldn't keep both the RS and Exige, because there is not enough parking space here.
I seriously love my Exige, the handling is so direct with lots of feeling, but my car is standard so the hp isn't enough for me. Plus, I already feel a little bit boring, deal to the car is so easy to handle, just like a road going kart.
Hopefully, one year later the new RS will arrive and at that time I am going to just keep the RS, even the engine is in the wrong place compared with the Lotus, but I bet the handling would be awesome and with ton of power!
Thanks again folk!
I will let you know if I have a GT3 for sale on Friday night!
I meant what I said in my first post on this thread, but the GT3 does not do for me what the Exige does in terms of touching my soul. Even with all the drawbacks of the Exige, I guess none of them really matter to me that much since cars about driving, and it does that so very, very well.
01-29-2008, 10:57 PM
#14
The steering feel in the GT3 is great, but the Lotus is better. It's much more direct in the Lotus, and much more linear. The variable ratio steering in the GT3 is o.k. for the street, but makes the car feel a bit less responsive (compared to the Lotus) on the track. The Lotus communicates everything that's going on. The GT3 does a good job of this as well, but the Lotus is even less isolated so it gets the edge.
It's been said a million times, and it's a cliche, but the Lotus is basically an overgrown go-kart.
It's been said a million times, and it's a cliche, but the Lotus is basically an overgrown go-kart.
01-30-2008, 02:07 AM
#15
Drifting
Mooty and others - I am interested in your comments regarding the steering characteristics of a 996 GT3 versus the Lotus. The reason I ask is that my 996 "3" has a much more linear/direct feel than the 997 "3", and that is the MAIN reason that I chose to pass on my 997 GT3 allocation.
My wife is very interested in getting onto the track, and thinks the Lotus is "so cute". Hey - putting a Lotus in the garage as the "other" car would not be a problem. I guess I am just afraid that I am going to like it more than my 996 GT3!
-Blake
My wife is very interested in getting onto the track, and thinks the Lotus is "so cute". Hey - putting a Lotus in the garage as the "other" car would not be a problem. I guess I am just afraid that I am going to like it more than my 996 GT3!
-Blake