amaist

So if I test a GTR against a Land Rover in a mud pit but make sure I disclose the conditions the test will be fair, right?
Disclosing the test conditions doesn't make the test fair. It just allows anyone to judge if it was fair or not.

Right now here in Montreal it is about 10 degrees Fahrenheit. If I take a GT3 out of the dealer showroom and compare it against a snowmobile around Tremblant circuit the snowmobile will win. The test under discussion here was in temperatures close to freezing. Why would anyone push a GT3 in those conditions? If the Nissan didn't beat it under such conditions it would have been a big black eye for them.

hesperus

and that's why it'll appeal to a LOT of people, and why it's a pretty incredible accomplishment for Nissan.

A writer commented that Porsche has perfected the science of the driver-car interface-- referring to the feel and weight of the steering, transmission, pedals and switchgear. That's true and I am reminded of it every time I drive the GT3.

BUT in my mind, its no less an accomplishment to make a large and heavy car so bloody fast even for an average driver. Sure the electronics may rob the car of that tactility and the satisfaction of doing it yourself. But this is Nissan's first attempt at a supercar in years. Like it or not, the GTR is a technical tour de force and mightily impressive from an engineering standpoint.

Can't wait til the US gets their cars and we have more tests over there...

fc-racer

I consider a review fair when it is impartial, honest, free from self-interest, prejudice and favouritism. I think this review meets all those criteria, however I do appreciate your viewpoint that the conditions were not as favourable to the semi-slick shod GT3.

Having said that, I don't think this is the last we'll hear of the GTR, I bet it will be a match for the GT3 even under ideal conditions as it too has some pretty interesting rubber wrapped around its wheels. Perhaps not as aggressive as the GT3, but definitely not ideal for 2C either.

iLLM3

You are right, and I never argued against their accomplishments or performance one bit. What I do argue is tests being done in sub par conditions and automatically saying x car is better than y... It just isn't for me, that's all!

C.J. Ichiban

hesperus- making slow people feel or drive fast is the aim of all the technological wizardry in the F430, with the mannetino and electronic differential...everyone who's driven the track versions of both that I speak with say that the F-cars are tons easier to drive although they break, and aren't really any faster given equal drivers. for better or worse, I think the computer takeover is well under way! driving skills aren't really increasing with the comeasurate spending and performance envelope. the GTR is the same- made by scientists for people who can or only want to use their right leg and fingers to drive.

FC-racer:
the video game generation (me) will be upset with the GTR in the long run because you can't boost it or modify it as deeply (or at all I think) compared to the previous 32/34 versions. A huge part of skyline's popularity is because goofballs throw ginormous turbos (youtube search 1000hp skyline) on there and drag race. I like that you can take a 993TT or a 996TT or a 997TT and EASILY get 100hp and still be very reliable.

stock for stock- the GTR seems to be a much more capable car than any of us would have predicted 4 years ago, but I for one want to be analog. For the price ballpark, I'd probably take a Zo6 vette because you can mod them and take them to ridiculous performance levels on track.

other than abs, I'm not too fond of all the gadgetry, and unless it's really really raining I always have TCS off in my rs4, gt3rs, rental cars... but surely wouldn't turn down a 430 scuderia. Of course I also eat organic food, and am lefthanded so clearly I'm not normal.

OldGuy

I already have a 4000 pound 4 X 4, ----its my SUV. A BMW X5. AND it will hold my skis AND my wifes makeup case!!!!!

To be honest the X5 is prettier than that GT-R.

C.J. Ichiban

OG let's drift your x5!!!!!!

OldGuy

CJ you think we can get the 315s to break loose?? I couldnt even get them to break loose in 8" of snow today!!!

C.J. Ichiban

you just have to get a little more weight on the front with a near threshold brake and a left-right flick to swing the back end around...just like the "finland flick" in a rally car. if that doesn't work, I've got nothing for you. of course you might end up rolling the damn thing, so maybe it's not a good idea, although I've seen footage of the cayenne in the snow and they had it sliding a bit

OldGuy

SO thats how you do it!! Well today is the first major snow I have had with the X5. I was hesitant
but it hooks up in the snow well for a AWD car. I went to the main lodge at Mammoth here and didnt really want to get Loose!! Might be snowed in tomorrow!! Hope you are well dood!! Keep ice on it!!

hesperus

CJI, this is a good point, and reminds me of something I noticed a few years ago about what seems to be a difference in philosophy in Japanese performance car driver aids vs European performance car driver aids.

During the last "wave" of JDM performance cars-- mainly i'm talking here about the earlier GTR's and Evos-- their electronic trickery was designed to make you go FASTER, but not necessarily keep you out of trouble.

The early Evo's had this well before the Evo became commonplace in the states. Its AYC "active yaw control" which I've tried in a '99 Evo VI, and then AYC + ACD "active center differential" which I had in my '01 Evo VII definitely worked and made the driver feel a hero, because the car would "do the job for you". Though if you pushd TOO far, you were basically on your own!

I think the ATTESSA 4WD system in early GTR were the same way.

In contrast, contemporary electronic systems in M-cars or Porsches-- PSM, ASR, DSC or whatever, I've started to lose track-- seem to have been designed to keep you out of trouble if you overcooked it, rather than make you go faster. After all, PSM = "Please Save Me" right?

If indeed this is the case, then it seems to highlight a fundamental difference in approach between the Japanese designers and European designers. On the one hand, you could say that the JDM ethos is "go on, go faster, you can do better than that! the car is ready!", whereas the Euro ethos is "if you don't know what you're doing, don't worry, i've got your back". On the other hand, it could simply be a function of the Evo's and Skyline GT-R's of the world, being based on everyday sedans, whereas Porsches were always designed from the start as sportscars.

The notable exception here would be the NSX, which as a mid engined normally aspirated car, was almost the JDM driver's car, whereas its contemporaries had more techno wizardry.

This isn't a value judgement I'm making. Rather, just an informal observation based on my experience of the cars I've owned and/or driven.

DreamCarrera

I agree with you 100% C.J., and this is why I don't regard Ferrari as highly as I have in the past. I remember the time, and I am fairly young, when Ferrari was proud of its "old school" driving characteristics and bucked the trend for more "nanny" gadgets.

In fact, I remember reading, with awe, auto journalists fawning over the fact that Ferraris were pure driver cars without the latest electronic gizmos. Now it seems that auto. journalists and new Ferrari buyers alike expect Ferrari to be on the cutting edge of the techno. revolution in the auto industry.

Why the 180 degree shift? Is it because of the video game generation, of which I am a member BTW, or is it simply because people are ignorant of the history of Ferrari?

After all, Ferrari is the company that balked (pun intended) at the idea of switching to disc brakes as well as ABS.

Jewels

Well I'm going for the best of both worlds...Trading in my 2000 S-4 for a GT-R(Gun Metal Metalic) and keeping my GT-3 for non- race track duties. Looks like June delivery.
Isn't life grand.

hkim80

Frankly, I hate the idea that Nissan is faster than 997. But I also hate how z06s and vipers are faster too.

GTRs always have been a special car, especially for fanboys. But come on, none of them, in stock form, was at a level comparable to 911 turbos. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

gosh, and I really hate to say this but what would happen when a lighter, track-ready V-spec GTR comes out?

Porsche gotta do something about it.

tdf360

Well at least you can still turn them all off if you so desire. I think it's probably a good idea to have the safety nets there for those who want/need them.

Gary