RMS fix DENIED by dealer! - Page 2

Coochas · 04-20-2009, 07:28 PM

I'm disappointed to see Porsche taking a position like this.
Then again, I had a local dealer tell me that I couldn't get warranty work on my old C4S because it had been driven on a track!

Adam S · 04-20-2009, 07:35 PM

That is such a poor position by porsche... I understand serious engine mods.. but the rear silencer? common... sounds like a really poor excuse, especially that this is known to be an existing issue with car with stock exhaust...

brutus143 · 04-20-2009, 07:38 PM

Look into this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act

DRG13 · 04-20-2009, 07:41 PM

When I read that bulletin, it does not say to me that Porsche won't fix RMS under warranty if you have an aftermarket exhaust or other mod.

"high-resolution pictures as well as a verification of any and all technical modifications on the vehicle (e.g. non-Porsche exhaust systems)."

It simply states they want to know what has been done, it does not say it won't be covered. If the dealer interpreted it as "Porsche won't perform RMS warranty work if you have an aftermarket exhaust" then you need to pursue it further. Before you guys slay Porsche on here, you might want to investigate further. I work in the area of failure analysis and trending and this information is vital in contributing to an accurate database.

excmag · 04-20-2009, 07:56 PM

Adam,

Best path is probably to contact Specialty Equipment Manufacturers Association. In some ways, it depends on winning cases like these and thus is known for helping people fight such pronouncements and arming them with applicable law.

That said, working with Alex and SEMA is probably your best bet. I suspect it is in Alex's best interest to make sure this doesn't stick, too...

pete

zellamsee · 04-20-2009, 08:05 PM

^ Good advice re SEMA.

My understanding is that Porsche considers any leak on the floor that is smaller than the size of a $0.50 piece/coin to be "normal" and therefore may deny a warranty repair if this is the case with the leak in question, regardless of whether there are any after-market components on the car.

roberga · 04-20-2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam S

Porsche field technician today did not allow the dealershp to fix my RMS leak issue, claiming that my 3,000 mile GT3 RS cannot be covered under warranty for an RMS leak because of the 6 month old sharkwerk muffler bypass...

I can pay to get it fixed.. around $1500 at least they said...

I'm in shock and at a loss... they claim the back flow reduction from the muffler caused it...
:-(

Does this sound like BS to u?
Who can you turn to to fight his decision?
Do sharkwerk people have any supporting data that it is not causing the leak or voiding the warranty?
Any advice?

it is his job to say no. You need to have your dealer's service manager make it happen. I had mine replaced on my 996 GT3 with >40K miles at no cost tto me.

todinlaw · 04-20-2009, 10:03 PM

Your warranty allows them to void coverage for any material modification if it causes damage to the motor or it components in this case. But they have to establish a relationship between the modification and the failure. There has to be a relationship that is cause and effect of failure. So if you put aftermarket tires on the car no way it caused an RMS. They can deny all they want but the still have to comply with State consumer laws. The Warranty has a process of appeal, if you lose that you can go to arbitration to resolve this dispute. I don't know what state you are in but if you are in Ohio I will do it free. I would check out what other lawyers are in your state who are PCA I bet you could get some help. That is B crap.

viperbob · 04-20-2009, 10:05 PM

The selling starts when the person says "no"...

stisseront · 04-20-2009, 10:44 PM

This is BS. According to the Magnuson-Moss act they have to prove that the bypass created the RMS.
At this point they may as well sell these car without a warranty.

speedoflight · 04-20-2009, 10:46 PM

that is bs. lame lame lame. denying warranty on rms due to aftermarket exhaust lacks common sense especially if they know full well that it leaks even in stock form. this is going to be my last porsche. i don't care how great it is.

sasportas · 04-20-2009, 11:09 PM

I wonder what the exhaust manufacturers have to add to this discussion? We all know that the seals were leaking without any exhaust changes.

Adam S · 04-20-2009, 11:15 PM

They said the cause stated is "diminished backpressure"...

I went back and picked up my car... the advisor tells me that the field rep warned me that if anyting else happens to my engine, I may be in trouble because of this (ie total warranty voided)...

I can't believe it.... especially that I paid extra $$ for an extended 7 year warranty...

:-(

Quote:

Originally Posted by todinlaw

Your warranty allows them to void coverage for any material modification if it causes damage to the motor or it components in this case. But they have to establish a relationship between the modification and the failure. There has to be a relationship that is cause and effect of failure. So if you put aftermarket tires on the car no way it caused an RMS. They can deny all they want but the still have to comply with State consumer laws. The Warranty has a process of appeal, if you lose that you can go to arbitration to resolve this dispute. I don't know what state you are in but if you are in Ohio I will do it free. I would check out what other lawyers are in your state who are PCA I bet you could get some help. That is B crap.

mooty · 04-21-2009, 12:15 AM

wow, surprising.
the exhaust has nothing to do with RMS.
hum.... i guess i need to lease my cars in future, drive the wheels off and dump it.

CorsicanBB · 04-21-2009, 12:22 AM

This story is, unfortunately, consistent with what I have been told here by Porsche Middle East. This is not a North America issue only, as the instructions come directly from the factory.

04-20-2009, 07:28 PM	#16
Coochas Banned For Life.... Rennlist Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 5,501	I'm disappointed to see Porsche taking a position like this. Then again, I had a local dealer tell me that I couldn't get warranty work on my old C4S because it had been driven on a track! __________________ Coochas aka Dave \|-Cayenne TitS Ed Purrrr Red\|-'99 Spec Boxster Black\| -'09 997 TT RS Orange -Check out my p-car e-brochure collection -997 Emergency Procedures Mobile Website

04-20-2009, 07:41 PM	#19
DRG13 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Southlake, TX and Park City, UT Posts: 595	When I read that bulletin, it does not say to me that Porsche won't fix RMS under warranty if you have an aftermarket exhaust or other mod. "high-resolution pictures as well as a verification of any and all technical modifications on the vehicle (e.g. non-Porsche exhaust systems)." It simply states they want to know what has been done, it does not say it won't be covered. If the dealer interpreted it as "Porsche won't perform RMS warranty work if you have an aftermarket exhaust" then you need to pursue it further. Before you guys slay Porsche on here, you might want to investigate further. I work in the area of failure analysis and trending and this information is vital in contributing to an accurate database. __________________ 997 GT3 RS

04-20-2009, 10:03 PM	#23
todinlaw Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 1,160	Your warranty allows them to void coverage for any material modification if it causes damage to the motor or it components in this case. But they have to establish a relationship between the modification and the failure. There has to be a relationship that is cause and effect of failure. So if you put aftermarket tires on the car no way it caused an RMS. They can deny all they want but the still have to comply with State consumer laws. The Warranty has a process of appeal, if you lose that you can go to arbitration to resolve this dispute. I don't know what state you are in but if you are in Ohio I will do it free. I would check out what other lawyers are in your state who are PCA I bet you could get some help. That is B crap. __________________ Frank PCA Nationally Trained Instructor # 200907140 Mid-Ohio Region PCA- Track Events Chair Member: No Pain Racing Team 1999 Spec Miata # 35 NASA Great Lakes Region 997 GT3 RIP at turn 3 Mid-Ohio 996 TT Traded In 1999 Boxster Traded In

04-20-2009, 10:44 PM	#25
stisseront Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 300	This is BS. According to the Magnuson-Moss act they have to prove that the bypass created the RMS. At this point they may as well sell these car without a warranty. __________________ '07 997 GT3 '07 997 Turbo (Wife's) '05 997 Carrera '90 Spec Miata '04 Mini Cooper S '09 Sequoia

04-20-2009, 11:09 PM	#27
sasportas Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 228	RMS/FMS I wonder what the exhaust manufacturers have to add to this discussion? We all know that the seals were leaking without any exhaust changes.

04-20-2009, 07:35 PM	#17
Adam S Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 97	That is such a poor position by porsche... I understand serious engine mods.. but the rear silencer? common... sounds like a really poor excuse, especially that this is known to be an existing issue with car with stock exhaust...

04-20-2009, 07:38 PM	#18
brutus143 User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 57	Look into this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act

04-20-2009, 07:56 PM	#20
excmag User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 350	Adam, Best path is probably to contact Specialty Equipment Manufacturers Association. In some ways, it depends on winning cases like these and thus is known for helping people fight such pronouncements and arming them with applicable law. That said, working with Alex and SEMA is probably your best bet. I suspect it is in Alex's best interest to make sure this doesn't stick, too... pete

04-20-2009, 08:05 PM	#21
zellamsee User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 334	^ Good advice re SEMA. My understanding is that Porsche considers any leak on the floor that is smaller than the size of a $0.50 piece/coin to be "normal" and therefore may deny a warranty repair if this is the case with the leak in question, regardless of whether there are any after-market components on the car.

04-20-2009, 10:05 PM	#24
viperbob Former Vendor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 6,851	The selling starts when the person says "no"...

04-20-2009, 10:46 PM	#26
speedoflight User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: fremont, CA Posts: 77	that is bs. lame lame lame. denying warranty on rms due to aftermarket exhaust lacks common sense especially if they know full well that it leaks even in stock form. this is going to be my last porsche. i don't care how great it is.

04-21-2009, 12:15 AM	#29
mooty Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: san francisco Posts: 13,846	wow, surprising. the exhaust has nothing to do with RMS. hum.... i guess i need to lease my cars in future, drive the wheels off and dump it. __________________ PCA National Certified Instructor HWFMR Team Director of "Unsanctioned" Track Events Rennlist Member #021125-3378

04-21-2009, 12:22 AM	#30
CorsicanBB Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Dubai, United Arab Emirates Posts: 295	This story is, unfortunately, consistent with what I have been told here by Porsche Middle East. This is not a North America issue only, as the instructions come directly from the factory.