Optional lithium ion battery

MJones · 11-03-2009, 03:05 PM

A pic of the $1,700 bad boy...

Alan Smithee · 11-03-2009, 03:16 PM

Gotta say, that looks pretty cool. Not sure if it's $1,700 cool, but cool nonetheless...

dsu* · 11-03-2009, 03:27 PM

wow..looks really really cool.

EXPERTS: is it worth the 1700??

chardonet · 11-03-2009, 03:31 PM

MJones:

Thank you for posting. Any pics of the brace and mounting hardware?

Clifton · 11-03-2009, 03:31 PM

What I don't understand is won't a lightweight Braille battery (as low as 11 lbs 80z) work just as well and save you a boat load of money in the process ($149 vs $1,700)?

Not my photo

malmasri · 11-03-2009, 03:45 PM

Although the price is high and I would never buy it if it was on Autozone's shelf....I find it ironic to complain about the $1700, when each on of the new owners is going to be shelling out almost ninty times as much money for the car itself.... Obviouly knowingly that there are much less expensive and perhaps comperable alternative to the RS like what Nissan ford or chevrolet sells

Thanks M Jones for the photo looks cool

NJ-GT · 11-03-2009, 05:27 PM

Worth it in every way.

Do not compare the Li-ion battery to a standard lead-acid battery like the stock one, or the Braille/Odyssey motorcycle batteries.

I have had quite a count of lightweight batteries, a Odyssey and three Brailles (which is a re-branded Deka).

Li-Ion batteries offer much more capacity, cranking amps and longer life. Very similar technology to cell phones, laptops. About 1/3 the weight for the same performance from a lead-acid battery.

Bob Rouleau · 11-03-2009, 06:16 PM

The L-Ion battery is a non starter (literally) for me. Fall track days can see early morning temps at 32 deg F.

OldGuy · 11-03-2009, 06:28 PM

Those look like my RC Helicopter batteries

Clifton · 11-03-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJ-GT

Worth it in every way.

Do not compare the Li-ion battery to a standard lead-acid battery like the stock one, or the Braille/Odyssey motorcycle batteries.

I have had quite a count of lightweight batteries, a Odyssey and three Brailles (which is a re-branded Deka).

Li-Ion batteries offer much more capacity, cranking amps and longer life. Very similar technology to cell phones, laptops. About 1/3 the weight for the same performance from a lead-acid battery.

Oh I'm not saying the Li-Ion are not a better technology, they certainly are. But I guess there are three crucial factors to consider: weight, life and peformance.

Weight (being the most important) - The Porsche Li-Ion is 13lbs vs the 11.8 Braille - I'd say $150 is cheap for lightweight part on a Porsche.

Life - even if the Li-Ion last 3 times a lead battery, you can buy eleven Braille to one Li-Ion with a Porsche lable on it.

Peformance - If a battery starts a car, then performance is moot, however, as you mention the Li-Ion does have certain advantages.

I'm not trying to split hairs, the Porsche battery is very cool stuff. I just can't see why somone would spend more for something that is heavier, does not really pay for itself over its service life nor does it offer a usable performance gain. I just don't get it....

ADias · 11-03-2009, 07:05 PM

Li-Ion batteries require a very stringent charging/monitoring circuit. They are also limited to a finite (a few hundred) charging cycles, and even though they do not have memory they prefer longer charging cycles. I'm not sure it is the best technology for a starter motor.

NJ-GT · 11-03-2009, 09:02 PM

The water cooled cars have a lot of parasite loads (static loads) in the electrical system. These cars need batteries with enough reserve and capacity.

- The stock Moll has a capacity of 70 Ah and a reserve of 115 minutes.
- The common replacement (and lighter) Optima Red 35/75 has a capacity of 44Ah and a reserve of 90 minutes.

We cannot compare a Braille or Odyssey to a Li-Ion battery. In the warm California weather, my 11 lbs Braille needed to be plugged permanently to a trickle charger in the garage. Things got better with the 15 lbs Braille.

At a warm track day I had to unplug the engine cooling fan with the car sitting in the garage, otherwise the Braille would drain out and the car won't start.

A 11 lbs Braille only has 15Ah and 25 minutes of capacity. A 15 lbs Braille has 21Ah and 35 minutes of capacity, still not enough. When I was using my RS with a Braille, I was carrying a jump starter as part of my tools, because more than once the car ran out of juice. My Spec Boxster drained a brand new carbon Braille (15.5 lbs) in 6 days just sitting in the garage.

A 14 lbs Lithium battery (volthpreaks) has a capacity of 48Ah and 100 minutes, better than an Optima Red Top. I already ran an Optima red top in my GT3, and I didn't need to carry a jump starter.

For some, 22 lbs could sound like negligible weight, but consider the location of the stock battery. Also, it is cheaper (per pound) than lighter wheels, a lighter flywheel, PCCB, or carbon body parts.

I'm quite sure that Porsche went through enough testing with this battery before pioneering such technology into mass produced vehicles.

I hope they offer the option in all the Porsche road cars (except Panamera and Cayenne, the anti-thesis of lighter cars).

Nizer · 11-03-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJ-GT

The water cooled cars have a lot of parasite loads (static loads) in the electrical system. These cars need batteries with enough reserve and capacity.

- The stock Moll has a capacity of 70 Ah and a reserve of 115 minutes.
- The common replacement (and lighter) Optima Red 35/75 has a capacity of 44Ah and a reserve of 90 minutes.

We cannot compare a Braille or Odyssey to a Li-Ion battery. In the warm California weather, my 11 lbs Braille needed to be plugged permanently to a trickle charger in the garage. Things got better with the 15 lbs Braille.

At a warm track day I had to unplug the engine cooling fan with the car sitting in the garage, otherwise the Braille would drain out and the car won't start.

A 11 lbs Braille only has 15Ah and 25 minutes of capacity. A 15 lbs Braille has 21Ah and 35 minutes of capacity, still not enough. When I was using my RS with a Braille, I was carrying a jump starter as part of my tools, because more than once the car ran out of juice. My Spec Boxster drained a brand new carbon Braille (15.5 lbs) in 6 days just sitting in the garage.

A 14 lbs Lithium battery (volthpreaks) has a capacity of 48Ah and 100 minutes, better than an Optima Red Top. I already ran an Optima red top in my GT3, and I didn't need to carry a jump starter.

For some, 22 lbs could sound like negligible weight, but consider the location of the stock battery. Also, it is cheaper (per pound) than lighter wheels, a lighter flywheel, PCCB, or carbon body parts.

I'm quite sure that Porsche went through enough testing with this battery before pioneering such technology into mass produced vehicles.

I hope they offer the option in all the Porsche road cars (except Panamera and Cayenne, the anti-thesis of lighter cars).

Good information. Thanks for sharing.

Clifton · 11-03-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJ-GT

A 14 lbs Lithium battery (volthpreaks) has a capacity of 48Ah and 100 minutes, better than an Optima Red Top.

I think a key point that was left out is that a 14lbs Volthpereak battery is $3,000. A $1,700 Porsche battery sounds like a bargin. LOL!

I hear what you are saying about the braille, but they are used in daily drivers every day.

And many modern cars with excessive electronics will drain just about any healthy battery if left sitting for a week. I had to switch airport cars because of this very reason.

Like i said before, $149 vs. $1,700/$3,000 - I just don't get it....

RollingArt · 11-04-2009, 01:32 AM

We use a Braille battery in one of our race cars and it's like NJ-GT says, needs lots of tending to and is not real dependable. No way I'd run one in a street use car.

Phil

11-03-2009, 03:31 PM	#4
chardonet Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nordschleife Posts: 222	MJones: Thank you for posting. Any pics of the brace and mounting hardware? __________________ MY2008 GT3

11-03-2009, 03:45 PM	#6
malmasri Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Toledo OH Posts: 129	Although the price is high and I would never buy it if it was on Autozone's shelf....I find it ironic to complain about the $1700, when each on of the new owners is going to be shelling out almost ninty times as much money for the car itself.... Obviouly knowingly that there are much less expensive and perhaps comperable alternative to the RS like what Nissan ford or chevrolet sells Thanks M Jones for the photo looks cool __________________ 997 MKI GT3 RS. 996 TT X50 RS 60 Spyder # 0023 (Summer Car) 964 C4 Supercharged ( Track Car & my favorate Porsche). 09 Cayenne Turbo S ( Devil in disguise) 997 MKII GT3 RS (May build). A PCA national Instructor. Experience is never to make the same mistake twice.

11-03-2009, 05:27 PM	#7
NJ-GT Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,464	Worth it in every way. Do not compare the Li-ion battery to a standard lead-acid battery like the stock one, or the Braille/Odyssey motorcycle batteries. I have had quite a count of lightweight batteries, a Odyssey and three Brailles (which is a re-branded Deka). Li-Ion batteries offer much more capacity, cranking amps and longer life. Very similar technology to cell phones, laptops. About 1/3 the weight for the same performance from a lead-acid battery. __________________ Rennlist Member #: 040525-3732 Autocross and Track Videos

11-03-2009, 06:16 PM	#8
Bob Rouleau Administrator Still plays with cars. Lifetime Rennlist Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Montreal Posts: 7,831	The L-Ion battery is a non starter (literally) for me. Fall track days can see early morning temps at 32 deg F. __________________ ..Bob Frozen North Rep & ceramic rotor roaster Hey, wait for me! racing.

11-03-2009, 06:28 PM	#9
OldGuy Addict Lifetime Rennlist Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ridgecrest, and Mammoth California Posts: 7,848	Those look like my RC Helicopter batteries __________________ OG 997 09 C2S PDK Carrera White Rennlist member# 030815-4002 Official NRA Liason to Sierra Club HWFMR paulgt3@gmail.com 2008 BMW 335i (wifey's) 2006 BMW X5 4.8iS 04 GT3 RSR Le Mans entrant Gone 97 993 TT midnite blue/cashmere(missed) 04 RED 996 GT3 2007 GT sliver GT3 2009 AMG C63

11-03-2009, 03:16 PM	#2
Alan Smithee Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,845	Gotta say, that looks pretty cool. Not sure if it's $1,700 cool, but cool nonetheless...

11-03-2009, 03:27 PM	#3
dsu* User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NYC, Newport Beach CA and Taipei Taiwan Posts: 139	wow..looks really really cool. EXPERTS: is it worth the 1700??

11-03-2009, 03:31 PM	#5
Clifton User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Earth Posts: 34	What I don't understand is won't a lightweight Braille battery (as low as 11 lbs 80z) work just as well and save you a boat load of money in the process ($149 vs $1,700)? Not my photo

11-03-2009, 07:05 PM	#11
ADias Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,578	Li-Ion batteries require a very stringent charging/monitoring circuit. They are also limited to a finite (a few hundred) charging cycles, and even though they do not have memory they prefer longer charging cycles. I'm not sure it is the best technology for a starter motor. __________________ "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG

11-03-2009, 09:02 PM	#12
NJ-GT Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,464	The water cooled cars have a lot of parasite loads (static loads) in the electrical system. These cars need batteries with enough reserve and capacity. - The stock Moll has a capacity of 70 Ah and a reserve of 115 minutes. - The common replacement (and lighter) Optima Red 35/75 has a capacity of 44Ah and a reserve of 90 minutes. We cannot compare a Braille or Odyssey to a Li-Ion battery. In the warm California weather, my 11 lbs Braille needed to be plugged permanently to a trickle charger in the garage. Things got better with the 15 lbs Braille. At a warm track day I had to unplug the engine cooling fan with the car sitting in the garage, otherwise the Braille would drain out and the car won't start. A 11 lbs Braille only has 15Ah and 25 minutes of capacity. A 15 lbs Braille has 21Ah and 35 minutes of capacity, still not enough. When I was using my RS with a Braille, I was carrying a jump starter as part of my tools, because more than once the car ran out of juice. My Spec Boxster drained a brand new carbon Braille (15.5 lbs) in 6 days just sitting in the garage. A 14 lbs Lithium battery (volthpreaks) has a capacity of 48Ah and 100 minutes, better than an Optima Red Top. I already ran an Optima red top in my GT3, and I didn't need to carry a jump starter. For some, 22 lbs could sound like negligible weight, but consider the location of the stock battery. Also, it is cheaper (per pound) than lighter wheels, a lighter flywheel, PCCB, or carbon body parts. I'm quite sure that Porsche went through enough testing with this battery before pioneering such technology into mass produced vehicles. I hope they offer the option in all the Porsche road cars (except Panamera and Cayenne, the anti-thesis of lighter cars). __________________ Rennlist Member #: 040525-3732 Autocross and Track Videos

11-04-2009, 01:32 AM	#15
RollingArt Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: S.F. bay area Posts: 338	We use a Braille battery in one of our race cars and it's like NJ-GT says, needs lots of tending to and is not real dependable. No way I'd run one in a street use car. Phil